Jesus was a rebel

[TheSage]

Jesus was a total rebel against the powerful forces of his day. You neocons extolling the virtues of the worldy satanic hierarchy should reconsider your options.

http://www.tamilnation.org/forum/sac...ntha/jesus.htm

So much has been written about this Jewish rebel by so many in so different contexts. I found, how Bernard Shaw described the activities of this Bethlehem rebel quite refreshing in many ways share with. Wrote Shaw:

"Jesus was from the point of view of the High Priest a heretic and an impostor. From the point of view of the merchants he was a rioter and a Communist. From the Roman Imperialist point of view he was a traitor. From the common sense point of view he was a dangerous mad man. From the snobbish point of view, always a very influential one, he was a penniless vagrant.

"From the police point of view he was an obstructer of thoroughfares, a beggar, an associate of prostitutes, an apologist of sinners, and a disparager of judges; and his daily companions were tramps whom he had seduced into vagabondage from their regular trades. From the point of view of the pious he was a Sabbath breaker, a denier of the efficacy of circumcision and the advocate of a strange rite of baptism, a gluttonous man and a wine bibber. He was abhorrent to the medical profession as an unqualified practitioner who healed people by quackery and charged nothing for the treatment.

"He was against the priests, against the judiciary, against the military, against the city (he declared that it was impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven), against all the interests, classes, principalities and powers, inviting everybody to abandon all these and follow him.

"By every argument, legal, political, religious, customary and polite, he was the most complete enemy of the society of his time ever brought to the bars He was guilty on every count of the indictment, and on many more that his accusers had not the wit to frame. If he was innocent then the whole world was guilty. To acquit him was to throw over Civilisation and all its institutions. History has borne out the case against him; for no State has ever constituted itself on his principles or made it possible to live according to his commandments."

[darin]

Jesus was a total rebel against the powerful forces of his day. You neocons extolling the virtues of the worldy satanic hierarchy should reconsider your options.

However he was NOT rebelling against Jewish LAW/TEACHINGS...only the "leaders" who were corrupting God's message. Fight your fight against the Pharasees of the day - NOT the old testament.

"He was against the priests, against the judiciary, against the military, against the city (he declared that it was impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven), against all the interests, classes, principalities and powers, inviting everybody to abandon all these and follow him.

That's got some lies there...Jesus never declared it was 'impossible' for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. If the auther can't get THAT bit right, he has no credibility speaking of Christ.

[TheSage]

However he was NOT rebelling against Jewish LAW/TEACHINGS...only the "leaders" who were corrupting God's message. Fight your fight against the Pharasees of the day - NOT the old testament.

They were corrupting god's message with the jewish laws. These are not the old testament laws, these are the talmud laws, elitism and racism. Get educated please.

[TheSage]

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bi...tem=1115662605
The scribes among the Pharisees created and transmitted the Pharisaic rabbinical traditions. The body of traditional law that they formulated, called the Halakah (preserved in the Mishnah), is extra-biblical. Although authoritative for Jews who follow Pharisaic tradition, much of the Halakah is not directly supported by Scripture, but is intended as a "hedge" about the law, to prevent any possibility of its being broken.
Ironically, in an attempt to ensure their law-keeping by putting a "hedge" about the law, the Pharisees were breaking the law, for God had said: "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you" (Deuteronomy 4:2; also 12:32). By adding the weight of their tradition to the law of God, they bound "heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders" (Matthew 23:4).
The Pharisees placed the authority of their traditions above that of Scripture itself, thus going against the word of God. Scripture scholar Joachim Jeremias affirms that for the Pharisees, the oral tradition was "above the Torah," and that the esoteric writings containing scribal teachings were regarded as inspired and surpassing the canonical books "in value and sanctity" (Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, pp. 236, 238–239). Alfred Edersheim also points out that traditional law was of "even greater obligation than Scripture itself" (The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Book I, 1.98).

The oral tradition is today known as the talmud.

[darin]

They were corrupting god's message with the jewish laws. These are not the old testament laws, these are the talmud laws, elitism and racism. Get educated please.

Don't have to be a dick, do you? Was Jesus ever a dick to people? Not to common-folk..ever.

Right - But God's message IS valid - even the message to the Jews. That was Jesus' point. He wasn't mad at Judism - he was mad at the sinners LEADING it.

[TheSage]

Don't have to be a dick, do you? Was Jesus ever a dick to people? Not to common-folk..ever.

Right - But God's message IS valid - even the message to the Jews. That was Jesus' point. He wasn't mad at Judism - he was mad at the sinners LEADING it.

God's message. Not the message of the Oral tradition, as it's called.

[5stringJeff]

God's message. Not the message of the Oral tradition, as it's called.

So what's your point? That the Talmud isn't Scripture? You won't get many arguments there.

[darin]

God's message. Not the message of the Oral tradition, as it's called.

(sigh).

Whatever helps you sleep. Seriously. Find Peace.

[Dilloduck]

Don't have to be a dick, do you? Was Jesus ever a dick to people? Not to common-folk..ever.

Right - But God's message IS valid - even the message to the Jews. That was Jesus' point. He wasn't mad at Judism - he was mad at the sinners LEADING it.

I guess he still is cause it hasnt' changed much.

[Nienna]

Jesus lived a life of total submission. He was not a rebel. Suppose a sergeant told a private to drop and do 50, and then a general walked by and said to go peel potatoes. The private gets up and heads to Dfac. Is the private in rebellion? No, he is obeying a higher authority.

Jesus had no rebellion in his heart. His actions toward the Jewish leaders were aimed at restoring rightful authority, not rebelling. The Jewish leaders were in rebellion, not Jesus.


(Jason, this smiley is for YOU... )

[TheSage]

Jesus lived a life of total submission. He was not a rebel. Suppose a sergeant told a private to drop and do 50, and then a general walked by and said to go peel potatoes. The private gets up and heads to Dfac. Is the private in rebellion? No, he is obeying a higher authority.

Jesus had no rebellion in his heart. His actions toward the Jewish leaders were aimed at restoring rightful authority, not rebelling. The Jewish leaders were in rebellion, not Jesus.


(Jason, this smiley is for YOU... )

Word games. One can submit to one thing while rebelling against another.

[KarlMarx]

Jesus wasn't here to change the world, but to save Man from sin.

He was the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets, not the anti-thesis of it.

Matthew 5:17-19: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

The first true rebel was, and still is, Lucifer or Satan. Because he rebelled against God's rule, he is condemned to eternal damnation, just as all who follow him.

Christianity does not advocate rebellion for the sake of rebellion. Render unto Caesar those things of Caesar and unto God those things of God. In other words, obey the law, unless it contradicts Christian teaching.

I think if you look, you'll notice that the Pharisees and the priests were trying to preserve the status quo. They seem very much like the Democrats and liberals of today, who resist anything that threatens to change their beloved Social Security, big government programs, abortion on demand, and taxation.

[5stringJeff]

Jesus was a total rebel against the powerful forces of his day. You neocons extolling the virtues of the worldy satanic hierarchy should reconsider your options.

If he was innocent then the whole world was guilty.

Indeed, he was innocent, and the whole world is guilty.

[TheSage]

Indeed, he was innocent, and the whole world is guilty.

I liked that sentence too.

[avatar4321]

The Lord didn't come as a rebel of anything. He came as a restorer. He restored the message of the Gospel which was lost among the Israelites when they were given the law of Moses as a result of their wickedness.

Christ made a specific point not to rebel against the government. It was the Pharisees who tried to get him to rebel so they could make some claim against His life.

17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. (Matthew 22:17-21)

Of course, the Pharisees still made false claims agianst Him. But Christ was innocent of the charges. When He was brought before Caiaphas and Pilate did He rebel then? No, not even then. He knew those wicked men were going to put Him to death. Yet rather than rebel and call down the Armies of Heaven as His disposal, He submitted to them. He let them beat Him, mock Him, scourge Him, and murder Him in the most horrible method ever conceived of by man. Despite this He still prayed to His Father to forgive those that were doing this to Him.

And why did He do this? Not because He was a rebel. If He had been a rebel the jews would have welcomed Him with open arms because that is exactly what they were expecting. They were expecting their Messiah to rebel against the oppressors and bring in a reign of peace forever. They were not expecting the man from Galilee because He was not the rebel they wanted.

No, He submitted Himself to authorities to be killed because He loved His the world. He forgave His murderers because He loved them despite what they were doing. He knew that as gruesome and painful as what He was going through it was the only way He could Atone for the sins of the world. The only way He could conquor death was to first submit to it.

It is that love, charity, the pure love of Christ that Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians.

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. (1 Cor. 13:1-7)

I wish you would learn to have charity for both the Jew and the Gentile. Do you think the Gospel was taught to the Gentiles to the exclusion of the Jews? Do you think you as a Gentile, have any more claim on the Atonement then the Jew does if you act wickedly? Paul preached to the Gentiles to save the Jews, not condemn them:

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive a
tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. (Romans 11:13-28)

The fulness of the Gentiles is coming in as Paul prophecied, the Gentiles are rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ on the largest scale in in history since the western world converted nearly 1700 years ago. Do you really think the Lord will not graft the natural branches back in? Do you think Paul was lying when he promised that Israel would be saved? Do you really think the numberless prophecies and promises that scattered Israel will be gathered will not come to pass?

God has no forgotten His promises. Nor does He sleep. He is actively preparing the World for the Second Coming, and part of that preparation is fulfilling the the prophecy of gathering. The physical gathering Judah to Palestine is only one aspect. They will still yet recognize their Messiah.

So if I were you, I'd worry less about what any Jews are doing and focus more on my own path before God. Without charity to both Jew and Gentile, you have nothing.