Jesus was a rebel

[Yurt]

I'm confused---are you saying that since there are no words in the Bible that actually say "everything that Jesus said is the truth" or "everything Paul said is the truth" that to challenge what Paul said is challenging what Jesus said too ?

It is to show him how stupid his comment is:

When did jesus say "Everything paul says will be correct"? Really. show me


He believes in Jesus, yet no one made this comment about Jesus. It is a "following his train of thought to its logical conclusion" type reasoning. That is why he could never outright answer it, because he knows it will necessarily negate his argument.

[TheSage]

You mean, that in your 2000-years-hence estimation, that Jesus would have disagreed with? Remember, Jesus appeared to Paul numerous times. Why would Paul intentionally misrepresent the messages of Christ when He repeatly appeared to him?



You are misinterpreting that passage. The context is that all citizens should respect the government to which they are subject. Nothing in the Bible prevents wars between governments.

Oh so then it would be wrong for the iranians to rise against the fundamentalists in control over there? Your invented exception for government on government toppling is just convenient for you. Is it wrong for chinese people to rebel against their totalitarian government, because they were born under it?

Governments are either sanctioned by god or they are not. Was the american revolution wrong? The american government only existed after the revolution. You're completely grasping at straws and it is sad.

[Yurt]

You're a retard.

From the debator of the century...:cow:

[TheSage]

From the debator of the century...:cow:

You had to go back to that? sad.

[Yurt]

You had to go back to that? sad.

Go back? Never was there. You are confused debator. Your one liners don't solve anything, except your "peace" of mind. It is clear who refuses to answer...

What is sad is your refusal to debate/answer the question. That is sad. Though you know that already and thus you must keep up quips/insults to make yourself sleep at night.

May you find peace.

[TheSage]

Go back? Never was there. You are confused debator. Your one liners don't solve anything, except your "peace" of mind. It is clear who refuses to answer...

What is sad is your refusal to debate/answer the question. That is sad. Though you know that already and thus you must keep up quips/insults to make yourself sleep at night.

May you find peace.

I've already articulated your point for you and refuted it.

May you get a clue and develop the ability to communicate more effectively.

[Yurt]

I've already articulated your point for you and refuted it.
May you get a clue and develop the ability to communicate more effectively.

Kindly let me know where. I have asked you again, and again to explain your point. Don't be snide, if you really articulated [your] point, somehow you think have done that with mine, then link the thread, or better yet, instead of being snide, simply sum up your alleged refutation. It is not hard, unless of course you are blowing hot wind.

No insults. Just a simple, clear refutation. If you can't refute me "again" then you have nothing to stand on. If I can't communicate effectively, then you should have no problem. It should be easy for you.

Sum it up, don't claim you have.

[5stringJeff]

Oh so then it would be wrong for the iranians to rise against the fundamentalists in control over there? Your invented exception for government on government toppling is just convenient for you. Is it wrong for chinese people to rebel against their totalitarian government, because they were born under it?

I Corinthians 7:21: "Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that."

Try reading the Bible holistically, Jason. It makes a lot more sense that way.

[TheSage]

I Corinthians 7:21: "Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that."

Try reading the Bible holistically, Jason. It makes a lot more sense that way.

It also makes more sense if you value the actual example of christ. That should carry at least as much weight as paul's selling out. As I said, the religion was corrupted from nearly the beginning.

Accept being a slave? Even your treasured jews were smarter than that. Moses led them out of bondage, and defied pharoah. was that wrong?

[Nienna]

It also makes more sense if you value the actual example of christ. That should carry at least as much weight as paul's selling out. As I said, the religion was corrupted from nearly the beginning.

Accept being a slave? Even your treasured jews were smarter than that. Moses led them out of bondage, and defied pharoah. was that wrong?

Jewish individuals were not in rebellion; they chose new leadership. The Bible is full of examples of unjust or unholy governments being overturned by other governments. Individual Jews who rebelled against Egypt were not rewarded with freedom. Only when they were a part of the God-ordained Exodus was their opposition to the Egyptian government rewarded with freedom.

[avatar4321]

The Lord didn't come as a rebel of anything. He came as a restorer. He restored the message of the Gospel which was lost among the Israelites when they were given the law of Moses as a result of their wickedness.

Christ made a specific point not to rebel against the government. It was the Pharisees who tried to get him to rebel so they could make some claim against His life.

17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. (Matthew 22:17-21)

Of course, the Pharisees still made false claims agianst Him. But Christ was innocent of the charges. When He was brought before Caiaphas and Pilate did He rebel then? No, not even then. He knew those wicked men were going to put Him to death. Yet rather than rebel and call down the Armies of Heaven as His disposal, He submitted to them. He let them beat Him, mock Him, scourge Him, and murder Him in the most horrible method ever conceived of by man. Despite this He still prayed to His Father to forgive those that were doing this to Him.

And why did He do this? Not because He was a rebel. If He had been a rebel the jews would have welcomed Him with open arms because that is exactly what they were expecting. They were expecting their Messiah to rebel against the oppressors and bring in a reign of peace forever. They were not expecting the man from Galilee because He was not the rebel they wanted.

No, He submitted Himself to authorities to be killed because He loved His the world. He forgave His murderers because He loved them despite what they were doing. He knew that as gruesome and painful as what He was going through it was the only way He could Atone for the sins of the world. The only way He could conquor death was to first submit to it.

It is that love, charity, the pure love of Christ that Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians.

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. (1 Cor. 13:1-7)

I wish you would learn to have charity for both the Jew and the Gentile. Do you think the Gospel was taught to the Gentiles to the exclusion of the Jews? Do you think you as a Gentile, have any more claim on the Atonement then the Jew does if you act wickedly? Paul preached to the Gentiles to save the Jews, not condemn them:

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive a
tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. (Romans 11:13-28)

The fulness of the Gentiles is coming in as Paul prophecied, the Gentiles are rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ on the largest scale in in history since the western world converted nearly 1700 years ago. Do you really think the Lord will not graft the natural branches back in? Do you think Paul was lying when he promised that Israel would be saved? Do you really think the numberless prophecies and promises that scattered Israel will be gathered will not come to pass?

God has no forgotten His promises. Nor does He sleep. He is actively preparing the World for the Second Coming, and part of that preparation is fulfilling the the prophecy of gathering. The physical gathering Judah to Palestine is only one aspect. They will still yet recognize their Messiah.

So if I were you, I'd worry less about what any Jews are doing and focus more on my own path before God. Without charity to both Jew and Gentile, you have nothing.

[TheSage]

The Lord didn't come as a rebel of anything. He came as a restorer. He restored the message of the Gospel which was lost among the Israelites when they were given the law of Moses as a result of their wickedness.

Christ made a specific point not to rebel against the government. It was the Pharisees who tried to get him to rebel so they could make some claim against His life.



Of course, the Pharisees still made false claims agianst Him. But Christ was innocent of the charges. When He was brought before Caiaphas and Pilate did He rebel then? No, not even then. He knew those wicked men were going to put Him to death. Yet rather than rebel and call down the Armies of Heaven as His disposal, He submitted to them. He let them beat Him, mock Him, scourge Him, and murder Him in the most horrible method ever conceived of by man. Despite this He still prayed to His Father to forgive those that were doing this to Him.

And why did He do this? Not because He was a rebel. If He had been a rebel the jews would have welcomed Him with open arms because that is exactly what they were expecting. They were expecting their Messiah to rebel against the oppressors and bring in a reign of peace forever. They were not expecting the man from Galilee because He was not the rebel they wanted.

No, He submitted Himself to authorities to be killed because He loved His the world. He forgave His murderers because He loved them despite what they were doing. He knew that as gruesome and painful as what He was going through it was the only way He could Atone for the sins of the world. The only way He could conquor death was to first submit to it.

It is that love, charity, the pure love of Christ that Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians.



I wish you would learn to have charity for both the Jew and the Gentile. Do you think the Gospel was taught to the Gentiles to the exclusion of the Jews? Do you think you as a Gentile, have any more claim on the Atonement then the Jew does if you act wickedly? Paul preached to the Gentiles to save the Jews, not condemn them:



The fulness of the Gentiles is coming in as Paul prophecied, the Gentiles are rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ on the largest scale in in history since the western world converted nearly 1700 years ago. Do you really think the Lord will not graft the natural branches back in? Do you think Paul was lying when he promised that Israel would be saved? Do you really think the numberless prophecies and promises that scattered Israel will be gathered will not come to pass?

God has no forgotten His promises. Nor does He sleep. He is actively preparing the World for the Second Coming, and part of that preparation is fulfilling the the prophecy of gathering. The physical gathering Judah to Palestine is only one aspect. They will still yet recognize their Messiah.

So if I were you, I'd worry less about what any Jews are doing and focus more on my own path before God. Without charity to both Jew and Gentile, you have nothing.

No. He did rebel on many levels. I'd abandon your kooky end times jew woshipping cult and get your head on straight.