MARTIN SHEEN questions 9/11

[Sertes]

More on Mineta:

http://72.14.205.104/custom?q=cache:...82790381073093
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com...neta-said.html
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Norman_Mineta

The first two debunk the "shoot-down order" without adding any evidence of it really existing on AA77 (we know there was a shoot down order for UA93, the fourth plane, but the plane had already crashed as it was issued).
But facts tell us the plane was not shot down, and that jetfighters scrambled from Langley at 9:30, seven minutes before the hit, so there would have been time (even at half speed) to shoot it down if the order was indeed that one.

But it's not so important at this point, as they don't assess the incongruences between Mineta deposition and 9/11 commission report.

The third is more interesting because it tries to establish a timeline:

There is conflicting evidence about when the Vice President arrived in the shelter conference room. The 9/11 Commission concluded, from the available evidence, that the Vice President arrived in the room shortly before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58.

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Norman_Mineta

Those are about the exact words of the 9/11 commission report:

There is conflicting evidence about when the Vice President arrived in the shelter conference room. We have concluded, from the available evidence, that the Vice President arrived in the room shortly before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

So, let's see Mineta deposition, again:

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/archiv...2003-05-23.htm

See the link? 9-11 commission dot gov again. Just the opposite of what got on paper on 9/11 commission report.

So?

[jimnyc]

There is no proof that Rumsfeld had issues contacting NORAD, Joint Chiefs of Staff or anyone else that would have been needed to notify. In fact, it's the FAA's responsibility to directly notify NORAD in hijacking cases, not Rumsfeld, not Cheney and not the president.

If there was some big conspiracy that Mineta is alluding to, then why aren't the Democrats up in arms over this? I assure you, if there was anything there it would be in every paper daily for years!

If fighter jets were scrambled from Langley at 9:30, that leaves them exactly 10 minutes to have intercepted the plane. Did they in fact catch up to the planes, and what happened once they were alongside them? Where are the official reports from NORAD showing the planes were scrambled and there whereabouts at 9:40? Can you please supply us with this information. I'm curious as to IF an order was given, where exactly these jets were at the time...

[LuvRPgrl]

Here we go again, when presented to hard evidence people just draw out the MEMEs, small ideas that float the internet made appositely to dismiss an unsettling truth.

It's already covered, but it makes no harm telling it again:

1) The number is 200, not a thousand

2) Similiar plans, false flag attacks that include 200 people supposed to remain silent forever have been made even by the U.S. cfr: Operation Northwoods, official plans for a false flag series of terrorists attacks to blame on Cuba, to start a war and a following invasion of the island.

3) It leaked in many occasions, the evidence presented by Mineta is the prime example

4) Why anyone from the planning, execution, or coverup of a terrorist attack that killed 3000 of his own citizens, why would he come out and denounce everyone in the conspiracy is still a mystery to me.
He would be hanged for high treason at best, or killed by the conspirators along with all his relatives at worst. Leaks come from different sources, by those side by side with cospirators, those who saw the incongruencies and denounced them

No, a leak by one of those who conspired in the event. Just one, is there ONE who leaked, who was actually involved?

[Sertes]

There is no proof that Rumsfeld had issues contacting NORAD, Joint Chiefs of Staff or anyone else that would have been needed to notify. In fact, it's the FAA's responsibility to directly notify NORAD in hijacking cases, not Rumsfeld, not Cheney and not the president.

No, we saw at the official papers, that was cleared out, right? DOD has the final word, in the person of the secretary of defense, on hijacking crisis management and counter-terrorism aid from the military to the civilian authorities. No one, not even governative debunkers challenge this claim.

If there was some big conspiracy that Mineta is alluding to, then why aren't the Democrats up in arms over this? I assure you, if there was anything there it would be in every paper daily for years!

Another off-topic MEME, can't we just cover one issue at a time? Every time I prove a point someone jumps up with an all-solving statement, which I already answered to. Can we finish the issue at hand, before I answer this again, since I never dodged a question?

If fighter jets were scrambled from Langley at 9:30, that leaves them exactly 10 minutes to have intercepted the plane. Did they in fact catch up to the planes, and what happened once they were alongside them? Where are the official reports from NORAD showing the planes were scrambled and there whereabouts at 9:40? Can you please supply us with this information. I'm curious as to IF an order was given, where exactly these jets were at the time...

Less time, actually: the fighter jets were effectively airborne at 9:30, the pentagon plane hit at 9:37, so it would leave just 7 minutes.

But a F16 flies at 1500mph top, which is 25 miles per minute, Langley is 105 miles out, simple math shows that they could get it there at half speed. Or at an higher than half speed they would have reached the pentagon plane while it was doing the 270 degrees turn above the pentagon, like a fat sitting duck, no game for jetfighters nor for air-to-air missiles.

So facts stands: we know Mineta himself was in contact with FAA number two which was following the pentagon plane on FAA radar in real time. We know the young man informing the VP too was aware of the plane position and distance relative to washington, "the plane is 50 miles out, 30 miles out, 10 miles out".
We covered above that there was the possibility for a shoot down, given the order.
We know there was an ongoing order, we know the VP was in charge, because it's of course it's to him the young man asked "does the orders still stands?"
And we know that plane hit the pentagon.

So the official version is that after 20 minutes of the two hits on the twin towers a commercial plane was able to fly undisturbed, toward the most heavily defended airspace in the world, circle above washington d.c. and hit the pentagon!
And do you want to know (according to 9/11 commission report) where those jetfighters were sent? Toward New York, to protect Washington d.c. from incoming AA11, the plane who struck the first tower 20 minutes earlier!
So we have to believe that even if FAA had the pentagon plane on radar, and someone was informing the VP the plane was 50 miles out and incoming, the 2 closer jetfighters were sent east rather than north to protect from a phantom flight by error!
What's that, "shit happens"?

See it for yourself, it's all here in the 9/11 commission report: http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Except for Mineta deposition. They asked him, then they didn't report it.

[Sertes]

No, a leak by one of those who conspired in the event. Just one, is there ONE who leaked, who was actually involved?

Helloooooo
Am I supposed to answer only or can I get an answer from someone, as well??

Why do you expect anyone from the planning, execution, or coverup of a terrorist attack that killed 3000 of his own citizens to come out and denounce everyone in the conspiracy, facing hanging for high treason at best, or being killed by the conspirators along with all his relatives at worst?

Can you answer this little one for me?

[jimnyc]

And do you want to know (according to 9/11 commission report) where those jetfighters were sent? Toward New York, to protect Washington d.c. from incoming AA11, the plane who struck the first tower 20 minutes earlier!
So we have to believe that even if FAA had the pentagon plane on radar, and someone was informing the VP the plane was 50 miles out and incoming, the 2 closer jetfighters were sent east rather than north to protect from a phantom flight by error!
What's that, "shit happens"?

See it for yourself, it's all here in the 9/11 commission report: http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch1.htm

Except for Mineta deposition. They asked him, then they didn't report it.

Who ordered the fighter planes to go where they were located? Why haven't you provided official documentation on this as I asked? I'll give you a hint, I already know the answers. I'll give you another hint, none of those you accuse had anything to do with the fighter jets that were scrambled or their whereabouts.

You just blabber the same crap over and over. You still have absolutely nothing and haven't convinced a single person here of one single thing.

Have some more cheese, ratboy, and come back to us when you have something of substance. All we have so far is clear evidence of 16 hijackers crashing planes into buildings, nothing more.

[jimnyc]

Can you answer this little one for me?

Cause there is no one to come forward about anything. We have a massive government, and they all hate one another. If there was ANYTHING at all to go on, they would be running with it. But unlike you, they deal in facts and evidence, not retarded conspiracies.

[Sertes]

Cause there is no one to come forward about anything. We have a massive government, and they all hate one another. If there was ANYTHING at all to go on, they would be running with it. But unlike you, they deal in facts and evidence, not retarded conspiracies.

Yeah, more blind denial that didn't answer the question. I asked LuvRPgrl:

Why do you expect anyone from the planning, execution, or coverup of a terrorist attack that killed 3000 of his own citizens to come out and denounce everyone in the conspiracy, facing hanging for high treason at best, or being killed by the conspirators along with all his relatives at worst?

[Sertes]

Who ordered the fighter planes to go where they were located? Why haven't you provided official documentation on this as I asked? I'll give you a hint, I already know the answers. I'll give you another hint, none of those you accuse had anything to do with the fighter jets that were scrambled or their whereabouts.

You just blabber the same crap over and over. You still have absolutely nothing and haven't convinced a single person here of one single thing.

Have some more cheese, ratboy, and come back to us when you have something of substance. All we have so far is clear evidence of 16 hijackers crashing planes into buildings, nothing more.

First of all your insults doesn't impress anyone, here, removed those the substance of your posts is very little.

Second, it's 19 hijackers even in the official version, not 16, the one who asks for precision should be flawless himself, right? Instead you don't even know the number of hijackers and still want to lecture me.

Third, why is it important who ordered the planes elsewere? I showed you Rumsfeld had to respond to the hijacking crisis management and he didn't. I showed you Cheney knew the plane location, issued an order and the plane was able to hit the pentagon. So why are you pointing to side issues like who ordered the plane elsewere? The official answer is in the 9/11 commission report we both linked earlier, big deal.

[jimnyc]

First of all your insults doesn't impress anyone, here, removed those the substance of your posts is very little.

Second, it's 19 hijackers even in the official version, not 16, the one who asks for precision should be flawless himself, right? Instead you don't even know the number of hijackers and still want to lecture me.

Third, why is it important who ordered the planes elsewere? I showed you Rumsfeld had to respond to the hijacking crisis management and he didn't. I showed you Cheney knew the plane location, issued an order and the plane was able to hit the pentagon. So why are you pointing to side issues like who ordered the plane elsewere? The official answer is in the 9/11 commission report we both linked earlier, big deal.

Dodge some more, ratboy!

You were the one who just made a big deal about how the planes were ordered elsewhere. So I simply wanted to know who it was that gave that order. NORAD knew the location of the flight that hit the pentagon, and it was NORAD that directed the jets, yet you continue to blame Cheney and/or Rumsfeld.

And I get plenty of positive reputation from members here for making a fool out of you, pepperoni breath, so apparently some are impressed! LOL

[jimnyc]

Yeah, more blind denial that didn't answer the question. I asked LuvRPgrl:

Why do you expect anyone from the planning, execution, or coverup of a terrorist attack that killed 3000 of his own citizens to come out and denounce everyone in the conspiracy, facing hanging for high treason at best, or being killed by the conspirators along with all his relatives at worst?

Doesn't matter, dolt. You still claim you have direct evidence of the official report being wrong and claim other ridiculous theories to claim it was an inside job. Yet our massive government hasn't jumped on any of this regurgitated garbage you keep spewing. They jump all over BJ's, homos, bogus $100 donations & other ridiculous things to denounce one another, but not a peep from any respected government official is jumping on the inside job crap you rant on about.

[Sertes]

Doesn't matter, dolt. You still claim you have direct evidence of the official report being wrong and claim other ridiculous theories to claim it was an inside job. Yet our massive government hasn't jumped on any of this regurgitated garbage you keep spewing. They jump all over BJ's, homos, bogus $100 donations & other ridiculous things to denounce one another, but not a peep from any respected government official is jumping on the inside job crap you rant on about.

Doesn't matter to you, fine. It matters to me, and I'm asking it to LuvRPgrl.

Don't feel obliged to answer all the question you can just because you cannot answer the big ones. That's not your fault, the official version didn't answer either, that's why you're clueless, you have no link to submit, and you never take sides with a genuine answer of your own. The things I asked YOU are:

Which part of AA77 made the 12-foot round punch out hole at the pentagon?

Where was Dick Cheney at 9:30?

What caused WTC7 collapse?

[Sertes]

Dodge some more, ratboy!

You were the one who just made a big deal about how the planes were ordered elsewhere. So I simply wanted to know who it was that gave that order. NORAD knew the location of the flight that hit the pentagon, and it was NORAD that directed the jets, yet you continue to blame Cheney and/or Rumsfeld.

I make no big deal about how the planes were ordered elsewhere, I make a big deal on the location of Dick Cheney at 9:30.
Until you recognize that Mineta deposition and 9/11 commission report contradict one another I'll respond to your... inconsitencies.

And I get plenty of positive reputation from members here for making a fool out of you, pepperoni breath, so apparently some are impressed! LOL

Good for you, but since you're a moderator feel free to look at my PM, you'll see I convinced a couple of people who voted me back to positive reputation just for my comments on 9/11. Just don't publish their names, there are other self-styled patriots that know no better than insult the 9/11 truth movement, I don't want them to get all the insults you and the others are throwing at me.

[jimnyc]

Doesn't matter to you, fine. It matters to me, and I'm asking it to LuvRPgrl.

Don't feel obliged to answer all the question you can just because you cannot answer the big ones. That's not your fault, the official version didn't answer either, that's why you're clueless, you have no link to submit, and you never take sides with a genuine answer of your own. The things I asked YOU are:

Which part of AA77 made the 12-foot round punch out hole at the pentagon?

Where was Dick Cheney at 9:30?

What caused WTC7 collapse?

I know for a fact that it wasn't nothing other than a plane that hit the pentagon that caused all the damage. I know it doesn't matter if Cheney screwed up the timeline, that it made no difference as to what happened at the pentagon. I know that WTC7 collapsed due to unprecedented jets hitting buildings and collapsing into surrounding buildings.

You seem to think just because certain aspects of unprecedented attacks can't be specifically explained that it immediately means there is a cover up or something shady going on. Never before in history has anything like this happened and it makes complete sense that there will be questions and things seemingly out of place. But to sound repetitive like yourself, I'll state again, after a couple of hundred posts by you on the subject you have offered NOTHING, not a single piece of credible evidence showing the attacks to be anything other than what they were reported as.

But keep on blabbering, every board needs it's village idiot to keep people amused!

[jimnyc]

I make no big deal about how the planes were ordered elsewhere, I make a big deal on the location of Dick Cheney at 9:30.
Until you recognize that Mineta deposition and 9/11 commission report contradict one another I'll respond to your... inconsitencies.

Then why did you mention that they were ordered elsewhere that day?

Good for you, but since you're a moderator feel free to look at my PM, you'll see I convinced a couple of people who voted me back to positive reputation just for my comments on 9/11. Just don't publish their names, there are other self-styled patriots that know no better than insult the 9/11 truth movement, I don't want them to get all the insults you and the others are throwing at me.

You're a liar. You have received exactly 4 reputation comments since becoming a member on this board, 3 being positive, and all 3 from known liberal loony toons on this board! And what was the final voting on the debate again?