Bad News for Liberals: Military Deaths Lower than some years of "Peace"

[darin]

Come ON now...how can libs rant and rave that "Bush Sends our kids to DIE" when sometimes MORE soldiers die in peacetime than today.

More active members of the military died during two years of peacetime in the early 1980s than died during a two-year period of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a government report.

The Congressional Research Service, which compiled war casualty statistics from the Revolutionary War to present day conflicts, reported that 4,699 members of the U.S. military died in 1981 and '82 — a period when the U.S. had only limited troop deployments to conflicts in the Mideast. That number of deaths is nearly 900 more than the 3,800 deaths during 2005 and '06, when the U.S. was fully committed to large-scale military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The CRS, which is the public policy research arm of Congress, issued its findings in the June report "American War and Military Operations Casualties: Lists and Statistics."

FOXNews.com, in re-examining the findings, found that — surprising as it may be — there were more active duty deaths in some years of peacetime than there were in some years of wartime.

Military analysts say the current decrease in military casualties, even during a time of war, is due to a campaign by the Armed Forces to reduce accidents and improve medical care on the battlefield.

"It's safer to be in the military because your accidental death rate has gone down; it's safer to be in the military because if you get wounded, you'll probably survive," said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org.

"Getting killed on the battlefield is one way that people in the military wind up dying, but it's not the main way."

According to the raw figures, of the 2,380 members of the military who died during active duty in 1981, 1,524 were killed in accidents, 145 by homicide, 457 by illness and 241 from self-inflicted wounds. That compares with the 1,942 killed in 2005; of that number, 632 died from accidents, 739 from hostile action, 49 from homicide, 281 from illness, 150 from self-inflicted wounds and 72 whose causes of death were still pending. Eleven deaths in ’81 and 19 deaths in ’05 were classified as “undetermined.”

More at link:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311644,00.html

[edit] Notes:

Total Military Deaths, by year - since 1992

1992: 1,293
1993: 1,213
1994: 1,075
1995: 1,040
1996: 974
1997: 817
1998: 827
1999: 796

Total: 8032

Total deaths from Hostile Action since 2001:
2001: 3
2002: 18
2003: 344
2004: 739
2005: 739
2006: 753
2007: Unknown tally

Total: 2596+

[Pale Rider]

Tell me about it... I was deployed to Lebanon in '82 with my fighter wing, and wound up with two pieces of RPG in my right lung. Peace time. Right.

[hjmick]

Great, now we get to hear how it was all Reagan's fault.

I came across this story earlier this morning and found it very informative. Funny thing, the report hasn't hit the news agencies elsewhere.

[Immanuel]

You are mixing apples and oranges here.

To be fair about this you would have to look at the total of all U.S. Military deaths whether combat related or not for each year 2001-7 . I'm sure there have been casualties that were not related to the war.

According to the information you provided, there were an average of 1004 deaths in the years from 1992-9. If those numbers hold true, you'd have to add 1000 deaths to each year from 2001-7 and where would that put your numbers?

Immie

[darin]

You are mixing apples and oranges here.

To be fair about this you would have to look at the total of all U.S. Military deaths whether combat related or not for each year 2001-7 . I'm sure there have been casualties that were not related to the war.

According to the information you provided, there were an average of 1004 deaths in the years from 1992-9. If those numbers hold true, you'd have to add 1000 deaths to each year from 2001-7 and where would that put your numbers?

Immie

Uh? What?

In the same span listed, about 8700 folk died. 2600 of those died from Hostile Action. Pretty clear, IMO.

Serving in the military can lead to one's death. War does not seem to be a primary cause, however. Over the past few years equal numbers of "accidents" have lead to death of our Military folk, as have 'hostile action'.

[Immanuel]

Uh? What?

In the same span listed, about 8700 folk died. 2600 of those died from Hostile Action. Pretty clear, IMO.

Serving in the military can lead to one's death. War does not seem to be a primary cause, however. Over the past few years equal numbers of "accidents" have lead to death of our Military folk, as have 'hostile action'.

Uh, these numbers are misleading.

Total Military Deaths, by year - since 1992

1992: 1,293
1993: 1,213
1994: 1,075
1995: 1,040
1996: 974
1997: 817
1998: 827
1999: 796

Total: 8032

Total deaths from Hostile Action since 2001:
2001: 3
2002: 18
2003: 344
2004: 739
2005: 739
2006: 753
2007: Unknown tally

You are only counting some of the death from 2001-7. You leave out all deaths that were not related to combat. I'm sure you are trying to be honest here, but the government is spinning.

For instance take a look at 2005, you show 739 deaths while the report actually shows 1942 buried deep in the report. They are playing games with the numbers. They expect us to look at the data and see a higher death count in the 90's and think, oh! things aren't as bad as we were told. However, if they showed apples to apples and showed 1942 deaths in '05 comparing them to the 90's we'd see that the death toll was actually significantly higher in '05 compared to any year in the 90's.

Just governmental spin.

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

Come ON now...how can libs rant and rave that "Bush Sends our kids to DIE" when sometimes MORE soldiers die in peacetime than today.




[edit] Notes:

Total Military Deaths, by year - since 1992

1992: 1,293
1993: 1,213
1994: 1,075
1995: 1,040
1996: 974
1997: 817
1998: 827
1999: 796

Total: 8032

Total deaths from Hostile Action since 2001:
2001: 3
2002: 18
2003: 344
2004: 739
2005: 739
2006: 753
2007: Unknown tally

Total: 2596+

There were more murders in Philly so far this year, than there were military deaths in 2001, 2002 & 2003 combined.

[Immanuel]

There were more murders in Philly so far this year, than there were military deaths in 2001, 2002 & 2003 combined.

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Immie

[darin]

Uh, these numbers are misleading.



You are only counting some of the death from 2001-7. You leave out all deaths that were not related to combat. I'm sure you are trying to be honest here, but the government is spinning.

Absolutely I did - but I indicated what the TOTAL deaths were: 87xx. The Point is "More of our Military Died during 8 years of PEACE than during combat operations with an armed enemy."

For instance take a look at 2005, you show 739 deaths while the report actually shows 1942 buried deep in the report. They are playing games with the numbers. They expect us to look at the data and see a higher death count in the 90's and think, oh! things aren't as bad as we were told. However, if they showed apples to apples and showed 1942 deaths in '05 comparing them to the 90's we'd see that the death toll was actually significantly higher in '05 compared to any year in the 90's.

Just governmental spin.

Immie

Nobody is playing games with the data - it's comparative data. I pulled those data points. Read the .pdf for all the numbers. The numbers shown show the risk of Death by serving your country - it shows over, say, a 20 year career, the average soldier is more likely to die from an accident than from a war.

[Hagbard Celine]

Is the number of soldiers who come back missing arms, legs and brain lobes higher or lower now or in peace time?

[Immanuel]

Absolutely I did - but I indicated what the TOTAL deaths were: 87xx. The Point is "More of our Military Died during 8 years of PEACE than during combat operations with an armed enemy."



Nobody is playing games with the data - it's comparative data. I pulled those data points. Read the .pdf for all the numbers. The numbers shown show the risk of Death by serving your country - it shows over, say, a 20 year career, the average soldier is more likely to die from an accident than from a war.

Oh, come on dmp, you don't expect me to buy that do you? The government is in extensive spin mode here playing numbers games trying to make things look better than they are and unfortunately most of America will buy it.

Immie

[darin]

Oh, come on dmp, you don't expect me to buy that do you? The government is in extensive spin mode here playing numbers games trying to make things look better than they are and unfortunately most of America will buy it.

Immie

uh - dude? You didn't read the report, did you. You're talking out of your ass a little bit. The report show ALL causes of death among our military.

dmp pulled from the report specific numbers to make a point. That point is this: Our military face MANY risks of death during their service. Death from Hostile Action doesn't seem to be the primary risk.

The problem you may be having is this: How can you beat the drum of "Bush is killing our kids!" when faced with data showing they were just as likely, or even slightly MORE likely to die during Peacetime?

We hear daily how many lives this war has cost the US of A. A secondary point is this: Having ANY military costs our country the lives of some of it's youth. It's sad. But it's reality.

perhaps that's why mature folk HONOR veterans - those who have faced those statistics and those risks, and have lived to tell the tale?

[theHawk]

How about comparing those numbers to the number of deaths by car accidents in the US.

[hjmick]

How about comparing those numbers to the number of deaths by car accidents in the US.

Crap, don't do that. They'll want to ban driving and withdrawl all automobiles from the U.S.

[Abbey Marie]

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Immie

You really don't see it? Let's try again: Soldiers sign up for duty knowing that their lives could be in danger. Civilians do not. Yet those civilians died in larger numbers than the military in the years I cited. On which group's deaths should compassionate libs be focusing first?