Liberal moonbat
Army desertion rate up 80 percent
With the state of our government, I can see why. Your commander in chief starts an illegal war, send you over on a tour of duty, lies about when you can return, lies about how long you have between tours, lies about how long your tour of duty is. All sorts of crap.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071117/...tary_deserters
Senior Member
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
Liberal moonbat
See what Malkin has to say about my thread, then get back to me.
Senior Member
It is honorable to refuse to serve in some conditions.
http://desertpeace.blogspot.com/2007...a-victory.html
Victory for Iraq war refuser
Supporters of First Lt. Ehren Watada rejoiced over a federal judge’s injunction last week barring a new court-martial for the officer who refused to serve in Iraq. But they also urged stepped-up pressure to drop all charges and release Watada from the Army with an honorable discharge.
Watada is the first U.S. commissioned officer to publicly refuse to go to Iraq. Last year, after criticizing the Iraq war as an illegal occupation, he refused to deploy there with his Stryker Brigade. The Army rejected his offer to serve instead in Afghanistan.
Because he spoke out publicly against the Iraq war, the Army added the charge of conduct unbecoming an officer.
U.S. District Court Judge Benjamin Settle issued a temporary injunction barring a second court-martial. The judge said Watada would probably be successful in asserting that his Fifth Amendment rights would be violated by being tried twice for the same crime, otherwise known as double jeopardy.
Last edited by truthmatters; 11-17-2007 at 12:41 PM.
Banned
I don't think there's any denying our troops have been worked to the bone. Regular troops, reserve troops that we shouldn't even be using, tours extended, tours double, tripled and even quadrupled because we don't have enough man power. It's a crying shame to treat our men and women in uniform like this. A crying fucking shame. If we're going to fight these kind of nation building battles with no end in sight, we need a draft, plain and simple. It's just criminal treat to the people we do have in uniform like this, and this is coming from a veteran.Originally Posted by gabosaurus
WE NEED MORE PEOPLE IF WE EXPECT TO KEEP UP THE PACE WE HAVE.
Super Minion
Pale, when you start to buy into Gabby's spin, you really need to take a deep breath:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila..._11162007.html
From the link:
...Army desertion rates have fluctuated since the Vietnam War — when they peaked at 5 percent. In the 1970s they hovered between 1 and 3 percent, which is up to three out of every 100 soldiers. Those rates plunged in the 1980s and early 1990s to between 2 and 3 out of every 1,000 soldiers.
Desertions began to creep up in the late 1990s into the turn of the century, when the U.S. conducted an air war in Kosovo and later sent peacekeeping troops there.
The numbers declined in 2003 and 2004, in the early years of the Iraq war, but then began to increase steadily.
In contrast, the Navy has seen a steady decline in deserters since 2001, going from 3,665 that year to 1,129 in 2007.
The Marine Corps, meanwhile, has seen the number of deserters stay fairly stable over that timeframe — with about 1,000 deserters a year. During 2003 and 2004 — the first two years of the Iraq war — the number of deserters fell to 877 and 744, respectively.
The Air Force can tout the fewest number of deserters — with no more than 56 bolting in each of the past five years. The low was in fiscal 2007, with just 16 deserters.
Despite the continued increase in Army desertions, however, an Associated Press examination of Pentagon figures earlier this year showed that the military does little to find those who bolt, and rarely prosecutes the ones they find. Some are allowed to simply return to their units, while most are given less-than-honorable discharges.
"My personal opinion is the only way to stop desertions is to change the climate ... how they are living and doing what they need to do," said Wallace, adding that good officers and more attention from Army leaders could "go a long way to stemming desertions."
Unlike those in the Vietnam era, deserters from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars may not find Canada a safe haven.
Just this week, the Supreme Court of Canada refused to hear the appeals of two Army deserters who sought refugee status to avoid the war in Iraq. The ruling left them without a legal basis to stay in Canada and dealt a blow to other Americans in similar circumstances...
Banned
Well with all due respect Kath, your numbers are kind of old. It's 2007, not 2004.
Maybe you should read this...
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/homecinema/0...9291679,00.htm
and this...
Strained Army Extends Tours To 15 Months
Move Is Needed for Iraq Troop Increase
By Ann Scott Tyson and Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, April 12, 2007; Page A01
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates announced yesterday that all active-duty soldiers currently deployed or going to Iraq and Afghanistan will see their one-year tours extended to 15 months, acknowledging that such a strain on the war-weary Army is necessary should the ongoing troop increase be prolonged well into next year.
The decision -- coming three months after President Bush put forth his new security plan for Iraq, including the deployment of at least 28,000 additional troops there -- reflects the reality that the new strategy is unfeasible without introducing longer Army tours.
The across-the-board extension will affect more than 100,000 active-duty soldiers and will result in the longest combat tours for the Army since World War II. It will also mandate for the first time that active-duty soldiers spend more time at war than at home.
"This recognizes . . . that our forces are stretched. There's no question about that," Gates told reporters at the Pentagon.
Calling the longer tours "difficult but necessary," he said that all active-duty Army units in the Middle East, Central Asia and the Horn of Africa -- as well as those deploying there -- will serve up to 15 months, effective immediately, with the exception of two brigades that have already been extended. He made it clear that most units should expect 15-month tours.
"This decision will ask a lot of our Army troops and their families," Gates said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...041100615.html
There's more... MUCH more about this. Don't kid yourself that our Army isn't worn to a frazle. They are.
Super Minion
Pale, the link brought me to a speakers site.
Super Minion
Pale, when I google 2007 desertions, I keep coming up with the same AP story originally posted.
Banned
Sorry about the speaker link... me and manu are PM'ing about audio stuff.
But my point is simply that are troops are worn out and stretched thin, that's all. And that's spoken about in the article I posted above. You can find MUCH written about it too... facts... from military commanders. That is why I can see it if desertion rates are up. It just makes sense.
Super Minion
I don't disagree, though I really don't think that 'the draft' is the answer. It will have to wait until 2008, but we need to enlarge the military, substantially. It seems the Democrats now want to get rid of private contractors too, which means the military will now have to train others to do that function. Conscription may have to be the answer. Still, it will take funding, which right now the Dems are playing games with.
Banned
Yeah the Pentagon is headed for a funding train wreck. They're already giving out 60 day in advance, required notices to union employees.
I think we need a draft. Hell we had one during Viet Nam. Why shouldn't we have one now? I think it's a good place for all those illegal aliens. Want a fast track to citizenship? Spend three years in the Army. There's ten, fifteen million able bodied siolders right there. Don't want to do three years in the Army? OK now you can REALLY bet you're going to be deported.
Super Minion
Actually I've always thought that if illegals here volunteered and could get through some vetting program, that is the one exception I could live with. Then fine, come to the colleges, etc.
.
Yours too
Senior Member
Michelle told me to post this...
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)
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