San Francisco 49ers Vs. Pittsburgh Steelers

[jimnyc]

** Reminder - please no replies other than the 2 participants **

I thought it would be fun to have an entertainment debate instead of a political one, although this one will be limited to 3 post apiece between OCA and myself. The question at hand is which team was a better team, or "dynasty", the 70's Steelers or the SB winning teams of the 80's/90's 49ers.

I'm going to start out by simply pointing out the best team ever assembled in the NFL to this day, and I believe it cannot be disputed.

Super Bowl IX - 16-6 over Vikings January 12, 1975
Super Bowl X - 21-17 over Cowboys January 18, 1976
Super Bowl XIII 35-31 over Cowboys January 21, 1979
Super Bowl XIV 31-19 over LA Rams January 20, 1980

The Steelers were the first team ever to win back to back Super Bowls, and to this day remain the only team to ever do it twice. From 1972 - 1979 they had eight consecutive playoff berths, 7 AFC central Titles, 4 AFC Championships and 4 Super Bowl wins.

It all started with the owner, Dan Rooney - who is now in the Hall of Fame. Then it was their Coach who won all 4 Super Bowls, Chuck Knoll, who is also now in the Hall of Fame.

Here are some highlights of who they had on offense:

Terry Bradshaw - In the Hall of Fame - 3 Pro Bowl appearances - 2 SB MVP'S
Franco Harris - In the Hall of Fame - 9 Pro Bowl appearances - SB MVP
Rocky Bleier
Mike Webster - In the Hall of Fame - 9 Pro Bowl appearances
Lynn Swann - In the Hall of Fame - 3 Pro Bowl appearances - SB MVP
John Stallworth - In the Hall of Fame - 3 Pro Bowl appearances

And on defense:

Jack Lambert - In the Hall of Fame - 9 Pro Bowl appearances
Jack Ham - In the Hall of Fame - 8 Pro Bowl appearances
Mel Blount - In the Hall of Fame - 5 Pro Bowl appearances
Joe Greene - In the Hall of Fame - 10 Pro Bowl appearances
LC Greenwood - 6 Pro Bowl appearances
Donnie Shell - 5 Pro Bowl appearances

All told, from 1974 through 1980 the Steelers sent 58 players to the Pro Bowl. They were a team of consistency and longevity. Their core players were all the same throughout all 4 Super Bowl victories in 6 years. They have sent 9 players from the 70's team to the Hall of Fame, along with their head coach.

No doubt about it, the 49ers were a great team, as were the Bears teams, Cowboys, Redskins and Patriots. But none of those teams fielded the same players for so many years, with record filled seasons and pro bowl appearances, and 4 SB's in 6 years by the same players.

[OCA]

All valid points, but since I already made a lengthy post earlier(I thought that was the beginning of the debate), i'm gonna repost that and start from there. It looks like I need to go look up a bunch of stats since it seems Jimmy is a Steeler geek and knows what times those players like to drop a deuce and whether they preferred missionary or doggy.


First off Niners S.B. victories came in 82, 85, 89, 90 and 95 so to say they were a late 80's early 90's team is misleading, we made playoffs almost all years we didn't win S.B. in those 13 years, nobody else can say that.

Lets take the Niners teams of 89 and 90 vs the Steelers teams of late 70's since the Niners those years were basically made up of the same personnel. We had an awesome offense, unheard of at that time, with the likes of Montana, Craig, Rathman, Rice, Taylor, Jones.......we were unstoppable, defense wasn't bad either with a guy by the name of Ronnie Lott patrolling the middle very few receivers dared venture there.

Now the Steelers had the steel curtain, unbelievable defense....ugliest people ever to play in the NFL also, Jack Ham, Mean Joe, Greenwood, Lambert but.............I don't think your secondary would be able to stop the west coast offense consistently, too much speed and we never dropped passes nor did Montana ever throw a ball he shouldn't have thrown. Now your offense although adequate didn't match up what with an illiterate redneck by the name of Bradshaw running it, the guy could barely spell his own name, Swann and Stallworth would probably have better numbers if they'd have had a better QB throwing to them. We wouldn't have had much success running the ball past that 4 man front I admit but we wouldn't have needed it.

Final Score.......S.F. 27... Pittsburgh 17

Put that in your hookah and smoke it.

[OCA]

49ers hall of famers from those years:

Coach Bill Walsh, 4 S.B. victories, inventor of west coast offense used by most NFL teams today.

QB Joe Montana, 4 S.B. victories, retired with highest all time QB rating of 92.3, League record 31 4th quarter comebacks, 3 time S.B. MVP,

DB Ronnie Lott, played CB in first two S.B. victories and FS in last two, 5th on all time list of interception leaders, 10 pro bowl appearances.

QB Steve Young, 1 S.B. victory, took over highest all time passer rating from Montana when he retired with 96.8 rating, 43 rushing touchdowns career to rank him first among QB's.

Not yet eligible for Hall Of Fame.................greatest receiver in history of game.............Jerry Rice.

S.B. victories

1982 S.F. 26 Cincinnati 21
1985 S.F. 38 Miami 16
1989 S.F. 20 Cincinnati 16
1990 SAN FRANCISCO 55 DENVER 10........TOP THAT BITCH!
1995 S.F. 49 San Diego 26

San Francisco first team to 5 S.B. victories in NFL history.

15 playoff appearances between 1981 and 1998, excludes 1982 which was a strike year, so thats one year missing the playoffs............thats a dynasty.

[jimnyc]

For starters, a correction and a few notes:

Bill Walsh only won 3 SB's, and Chuck Knoll remains the only head coach in NFL history with 4 to his credit. Bill Walsh was coach of the Niners from 1979-1988 when George Seifert took over the reigns.

The 49ers only had 5 players total that played in all of their SB's in the 80's, let alone counting the 90's. They were Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Keena Turner, Eric Wright & Mike Wilson. Outside the first 2, the others aren't exactly household names.

While I agree the Niners had an exceptional franchise during the 15 years OCA specifies, it's a TEAM that the Steelers had. All Pro Bowl caliber players, all going to the SB together and running through the 70's with the same team over and over.

And While Terry Bradshwaw might not have been able to spell very well, he did lead his team to so many AFC Central Titles, AFC Championships and 4 SB wins. In 14 years he completed 2,025 passes out of 3,091 attempts for 27,989 yards and 212 TD's, while rushing 444 times for 2,257 yards and 32 more TD's.

It's in my Hookah and it's tasting good right about now!

[OCA]

For starters, a correction and a few notes:

Bill Walsh only won 3 SB's, and Chuck Knoll remains the only head coach in NFL history with 4 to his credit. Bill Walsh was coach of the Niners from 1979-1988 when George Seifert took over the reigns.

The 49ers only had 5 players total that played in all of their SB's in the 80's, let alone counting the 90's. They were Ronnie Lott, Joe Montana, Keena Turner, Eric Wright & Mike Wilson. Outside the first 2, the others aren't exactly household names.

While I agree the Niners had an exceptional franchise during the 15 years OCA specifies, it's a TEAM that the Steelers had. All Pro Bowl caliber players, all going to the SB together and running through the 70's with the same team over and over.

And While Terry Bradshwaw might not have been able to spell very well, he did lead his team to so many AFC Central Titles, AFC Championships and 4 SB wins. In 14 years he completed 2,025 passes out of 3,091 attempts for 27,989 yards and 212 TD's, while rushing 444 times for 2,257 yards and 32 more TD's.

It's in my Hookah and it's tasting good right about now!

49ers, first to 5, 16 playoff appearances 1n 18 years, don't care if Pee Wee Herman was starting nose tackle, thats a dynasty and thats what I thought we were talking about.......dynasty, not how many players stayed with one team their whole career.

Both Montana and Young have better overall QB ratings than Bradshaw, put up all the stats you want but they come out on top overall.

First to 5, all the rest is jive my friend.

[jimnyc]

This will be my last reply, making 3 total posts apiece as agreed.

I, and many others, believe a "dynasty" team is a team comprised of the same players having a winning history in succession. While I already stated the 49ers were a great franchise during the time you specified, it was different coaches, QB's, running backs, WR's and a whole mix of defensive players - spanned out over a 15 year period.

The Steelers "dynasty" team won 4 SB's in 6 years with almost every player being the same, with 9 of them eventually going to the hall of fame as well as the head coach, and each one of those nine were perennial Pro Bowl players. Their offense remained the same with Bradshaw passing after getting the ball snapped from Webster. He passed to Swann and Stallworth the entire time. When not passing, it was always Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier running the ball. Their defense, known as the "Steel Curtain" is perhaps the best defensive lineup EVER in the history of the NFL, and as a TEAM, they won 4 SB's.

Definition of Dynasty: "a sequence of rulers from the same family, stock, or group"

Meaning same players, same team, same games - all through winning seasons.

I stand by my original claim that the 70's Steelers were the best TEAM ever fielded.

[jimnyc]

Vote for who you think made a more convincing argument for their team!