Man Takes Hostages in NH Clinton Office

[Little-Acorn]

You advocate having everyone everywhere armed at all times

Little haggy's record remains unblemished by the slightest tint of accuracy.

Back to the subject:

A few weeks ago, I responded to one of little Haggy's questions with:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...637#post153637

The 1% of the law-abiding public they take hostage, who happen to be carrying a compact pistol or whatever, is what's to stop them. IF carry were permitted, which at present it isn't in most places.

Tha advantage of concealed carry lies in the fact that most of the public is good guys. The number of bad guys (terrorists, rapists, school shooters etc.) is quite small in comparison. If EVERYBODY were allowed to carry concealed weapons, most still wouldn't, of course. But a few good guys would. So if terrorists take an airport hostage, it's likely that out of the thousand or so people inside, a small number (10 or 20 maybe?) will probably be carrying. And the terrorists would have no idea which ones they are.

But they can be pretty sure of getting a bullet from an unexpected direction, maybe several unexpected directions... and there won't be much they can do to avoid it. Terrorists aren't afraid to die, but they DO want to complete their mission, whatever it is... and having a number of concealed shooters waiting for them to turn their backs, will very likely foil their mission. As a result, MAYBE THE TERRORISTS WILL DECIDE NOT TO TAKE THE AIRPORT HOSTAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE. And that' s the best of all possible results of allowing universal concealed carry.

Apparently little haggy is hoping that enough time has gone by since then, that people will forget what I pointed out, and enabling him to pretend I hadn't said it at all. Unfortunately for him, it's still on the board.

As I pointed out then, the right of law-abiding sovereign citizens to carry concealed weapons, gives them their best defense against people like the guy in Hillary's office right now. Better than police, SWAT teams, etc., whom the perp can identify, watch, and react to. All of little haggy's chronic bombast, namecalling, and subject-changing can't create a better one.

[diuretic]

If anyone in that office had been armed, the situation would probably be over by now. In part because the bad guy couldn't know which one(s) are armed until it's too late for him.

But they weren't, were they?

Yeah, they'd all be dead in the circular firing squad. I think your proposition is unrealistic.

There, that should get us going again

[diuretic]

I keep hearing the guy has released all the hostages. So why the heck hasnt anything else happened?

What would you advise now?

[Hagbard Celine]

Little haggy's record remains unblemished by the slightest tint of accuracy.

Back to the subject:

A few weeks ago, I responded to one of little Haggy's questions with:


Apparently little haggy is hoping that enough time has gone by since then, that people will forget what I pointed out, and enabling him to pretend I hadn't said it at all. Unfortunately for him, it's still on the board.

As I pointed out then, the right of law-abiding sovereign citizens to carry concealed weapons, gives them their best defense against people like the guy in Hillary's office right now. Better than police, SWAT teams, etc., whom the perp can identify, watch, and react to. All of little haggy's chronic bombast, namecalling, and subject-changing can't create a better one.

Dude The law already allows for people to carry concealed weapons. Anyone can go to the local magistrate court, apply for and get a concealed carry permit. The problem with your little sardonic retort is that hardly anyone takes advantage of it because most people aren't paranoid delusionals with violent streaks. Typical of the Internet message board conservative archetype, you're under the impression that everyone is out to get poor little you, so naturally you've convinced yourself that your second amendment rights are being infringed by everyone around you and you're probably paranoid enough that you've become one of the dangerous ones who actually does carry a gun around everywhere with you because you actually see yourself as the man with no name. In accordance with this little bit of insanity, you've also frequently fantasized that in a perfect world, you'd be lucky enough to get caught in a situation where you'll be lucky enough to commit your fantasy act of cowboy justice vigilantism and finally prove to everyone that, in addition to affirming your superiority complex, your dream of arming everyone everywhere really is the way things should be and that your warped, militaristic version of conservatism is, in fact philosophically superior. Too bad nearly everyone everywhere disagrees with your crazy ass, unrealistic fantasy view of the world, nearly every business and public place hires security guards and almost all businesses have a strict "no lethal weapons at work" policy. Not to mention you've overlooked the fact that, vigilantism is illegal and atleast in this situation, a pistol isn't any match for a bomb, which is what this guy claims he has.

[Little-Acorn]

Dude The law already allows for people to carry concealed weapons. Anyone can go to the local magistrate court, apply for and get a concealed carry permit.

I'm used to California, where if you apply for a CCW permit you are asked if you are

1.) A celebrity,
2.) A politician,
3.) A cop,

...and if you aren't, your application is summarily denied. Which is how it is in many states that supposedly "allow" concealed carry with a permit.

That "permit" process is, of course, a flat violation of the 2nd amendment, which does not contain the words "only with due process of law".

(more of little haggy's hysterical accusations, mistakes, and weird namecalling deleted)

I'm assuming that the aptly-named diuretic had started to write his post #32 before I'd finished editing in my reprint in post #31 of what I'd told little haggy from a few weeks back. So maybe he didn't remember that I'd already refuted what he was writing. It's not easy being a short-attention-span liberal these days, is it.

[gabosaurus]

The latest news reports state that the hostage takers are members of the Debate Policy Liberation Army. They are demanding that Hillary withdraw from the presidential race and move to Greenland.

[Little-Acorn]

BTW, they got the whacko. The one in Hillary's office, I mean. The one in her office with a bomb, I mean. Apparently no one harmed, thank God.

--------------------------------------------------

http://blogs.abcnews.com/rapidreport...e-situati.html

Alleged Hostage Taker Arrested at Clinton Office

November 30, 2007 2:09 PM

A man was arrested at a Hillary Clinton campaign office in Rochester, N.H., hours after he claimed he had a bomb strapped to his body and took several hostages, before apparently releasing them and being arrested.

Sources identified the suspect as Leeland Eisenberg. He is a well-known local man with a history of emotional issues who allegedly told his son to "watch the news," a well-placed law enforcement source told ABC News' Pierre Thomas.

The man with the apparent pipe bomb asked to speak to Clinton, a source added. He appeared to be in his 40s or older.

At an early evening media briefing before the arrest, Rochester, N.H., Police Capt. Paul Callaghan refused to discuss "the number of hostages that were taken or the number that are in there now."

Callaghan refused to publicly comment on the identity of the suspect or numerous other details of the emergency.

"There have been no reported injuries," Callaghan added. "This is still a fluid investigation. ... We are investigating a hostage situation."

Clinton apparently was not at the New Hampshire office. She canceled an appearance at a Democratic National Committee meeting in Northern Virginia outside of Washington, D.C., DNC Chairman Howard Dean said, because of "a hostage situation involving a Clinton staffer" in New Hampshire.

State and local police in New Hampshire initially were handling the emergency, but federal SWAT and hostage teams were on standby, law enforcement sources said.

"This is a very serious ongoing situation," New Hampshire Gov. John Lynch said in a statement this evening. "Law enforcement officials are coordinating closely and we are all hopeful for a quick, safe resolution."

Clinton's office released the following statement earlier in the day: "There is an ongoing situation in our Rochester, N.H., office. We are in close contact with state and local authorities and are acting at their direction. We will release additional details as appropriate."

New Hampshire Democratic Party Chairman Ray Buckley was already at the DNC meeting in Virginia, and remained there in the early stages of the New Hampshire emergency. He listened to a live Web stream by ABC News affiliate WMUR, but was not immediately in touch with colleagues on the ground in Rochester.

Amid the emergency at the Clinton office, rival campaign offices nearby -- for Sen. Barack Obama and former Sen. John Edwards -- were evacuated as a precaution.

At Clinton's Senate office on Capitol Hill in Washington, staff closed and locked the doors. The main door at her office, as with most senators' doors, is usually propped open during business hours. But this afternoon there was a uniformed Capitol Police officer stationed outside the door.

[avatar4321]

double post. delete it

[avatar4321]

here is what i found about Leeland Eisenberg on the web. looks like he annoyed some people about an "illegal search" of his car.

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...RS01/103160230

also found an op ed that is probably mentioning him:

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...RS05/103200025

Rochester police get slap in the face

To the editor:

The Rochester Police Department was trying to be proactive and help the citizen's of Rochester from thieves and what they got was a slap in the face.

For every minute that Capt. Dumas has to spend dealing with the antics of Leeland Eisenberg it is one less minute he has to spend helping someone with something important. Mr. Eisenberg is wasting the time and the money of the taxpayers.

Police officers risk their life every day helping people, and to make them question if they should put a piece of paper in a car is just wrong.

Why can't people focus on the important things?

Melissa Picard
Rochester

that is all thats on the web. no indication of any party affiliation or any reason why he would do this.

[theHawk]

Maybe he's a Muslim who's mad that a woman might become president

A muslim would of walked in and blew the place up. This guy is a fraud.

As if turns out, he's supposedly a mentally unstable libertarian who is paranoid about the government.

[Little-Acorn]

Anybody seen any video yet? Is this the guy with the bomb?


Leeland Eisenberg of Gonic holds a warning notice left by a Rochester police officer in his car on Tuesday. The notice states the the officer found the vehicle unlocked and that the Rochester Police Department is concerned about the owner possibly becoming a victim of property crime.
(Mike Ross/Chief photographer)



LEE EISENBERG of Gonic held an impromptu news conference in front of Rochester City Hall Thursday displaying a warning bulletin placed in his car by a Rochester police officer during the early morning hours on Tuesday. The notice states the the officer found the vehicle unlocked and that the Rochester Police Department is concerned about the owner possibly becoming a victim of property crime.
(Mike Ross/Chief photographer)

-------------------------------------------

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...RS01/103160230

Fliers prompt criticism: Outcry erupts over Rochester police warnings left in unlocked vehicles

By AARON SANBORN
Democrat Staff Writer
asanborn@fosters.com

Article Date: Friday, March 16, 2007

ROCHESTER — Police have stopped placing fliers in unlocked cars warning residents about motor vehicle thefts after one resident complained his constitutional rights were violated.

Leeland Eisenberg of Gonic is questioning the new police strategy that had officers checking for unlocked vehicles, opening the doors and placing fliers on the driver's seat urging residents to lock their doors.

Eisenberg said police did this to his red Chevrolet Monte Carlo early Tuesday morning while it was parked at the McDuffee Brook Place apartment complex, where he lives. Eisenberg said he's "outraged" because police opened his vehicle without permission.

Eisenberg said he's complained to the state attorney general, the governor and the U.S. attorney.

"What they're doing is going around during the middle of the night under the pretense they're looking out for your property rights and they're telling you 'we found your car unlocked and you should always lock your car and valuables up, don't be a victim of property crime,'" Eisenberg said. "Well, I just was a victim of property crime; you entered my vehicle unlawfully without a warrant."

Eisenberg is also claiming that police searched his vehicle when they entered it, noting that the interior of his car was clean when he left it on Monday night but was dirty with ashes from the ashtray when he found the flier on Tuesday morning.

On Thursday afternoon, Police Capt. Scott Dumas said he's confident none of his officers unlawfully searched any vehicle and said he welcomes any investigation Eisenberg wants to conduct.

"No searches took place, that would be unconstitutional," Dumas said. "The officers know the law."

The department now plans to stop flier distribution and find alternative ways to alleviate the problem.

Eisenberg calls it a new form of "intelligence gathering," where police use the fliers as an excuse to scout vehicles for illegal things without telling people, so they can come back later and legally bust them.

"This is nothing more than a gimmick to get around the Constitution and go around in the middle of the night upon unsuspecting citizens in their own yard and search their vehicles," Eisenberg said.

Dumas said they just want to reduce theft from motor vehicles.

For the last year and a half, thefts from motor vehicle have plagued the city despite numerous efforts by police to conduct extra cruiser patrols and warn the public with press releases.

Frustrated, Chief David Dubois asked officers to come up with new and creative ways to address the problem. The neon green fliers read: "Warning; This is not a ticket. Please do not respond to this warning with payment. The Rochester Police Department cares about your property."

The flier then reminds residents to lock their doors and to report any suspicious activity to Crimeline.

Dumas said police originally planned on placing the fliers on windshields but then realized it would make unlocked vehicles more of a target. The department then decided to place them inside unlocked vehicles and then lock the door but realized many people leave their keys in their vehicles overnight.

The department eventually settled on checking for unlocked vehicles, opening the doors, placing the fliers upside down on the driver's seat, and closing the door. Dumas said police have been doing this since February in areas of the city that have experienced thefts from motor vehicles, including parking lots at shopping plazas, apartment complexes, and the Community Center.

Dumas said police thought the positives would outweigh the negatives.

"It's a different world now, police are now policing differently then they ever have before," Dumas said. "I still think it was a good idea, the intent behind it was good but we don't want to upset residents."

Dumas said the department received positive and negative feedback from the public, but nothing as serious as Eisenberg's concerns.

Eisenberg still wants to bring his case before a judge and possibly sue the department and city.

"It's not about money, this is about principle, this is about a constitutional right," he said. "They're violating my civil rights and the civil rights of many citizens in this city — I'm asking anyone to come forward who has received one of these."

Coincidentally, thefts from motor vehicles were down to seven in February, from 33 in January.

" I do think (the fliers) played a role but weren't the sole reason," Dumas said.

[Kathianne]

I don't know if it's the same guy or not, but CNN could learn something here.

[avatar4321]

i cant imagine its another guy. I dont think that name would be frequent let alone frequent in Rochester NH. not to mention the news makes it clear he is an activist of some sorts. he is the only activit with that name from Rochester NH that ive read about on the web.

[Kathianne]

i cant imagine its another guy. I dont think that name would be frequent let alone frequent in Rochester NH. not to mention the news makes it clear he is an activist of some sorts. he is the only activit with that name from Rochester NH that ive read about on the web.

Right, CNN could learn something, about googling...

[diuretic]

Good work by LE on this