My disdain for the poor.

[avatar4321]

I thought that was Jesus's main message?

I thought he wanted people to care for each other?

He did. Just not with other peoples money. He was for actual charity, not government programs to pretend to fix the problem and really exagerbate it.

I dont see how artificially raising the minimum wage is caring for anyone when the women earning it is in a worse position with it higher than she is with it lower.

I dont see how its caring for someone to use a woman for a political purpose but fail to even point out simple things she can do to fix her situation.

[truthmatters]

First, a number of those children at home are already over 18. They could get jobs for themselves if they really had to.

Second, you seem to be ignoring the point where we actually fix the problem by showing her how to manage money in her life and how to self improve her situation. You know actually fix the problem rather than artificially raise the mimimum wage and fix absolutely nothing.

This is not just about this one person. This is about all the people who these programs are set up to help.

You either help them stay fed while you teach them or they will not be able to be taught.

No matter how you do it this will cost money.

The idea of spending money up front(just like in the commercial world) and then reap the benifits of saved money later.

That is what these programs are desiged for.

The other portions of the plan never gets voted in because to some people a momentary tax cut is more important than the education and school improvement that it would take to accomplish this.

If we really did what it would take to fix the problem we would be reaping the benifits of lower taxes and more revenue for the many many years.

[Nukeman]

This is not just about this one person. This is about all the people who these programs are set up to help.

You either help them stay fed while you teach them or they will not be able to be taught.

No matter how you do it this will cost money.

The idea of spending money up front(just like in the commercial world) and then reap the benifits of saved money later.

That is what these programs are desiged for.

The other portions of the plan never gets voted in because to some people a momentary tax cut is more important than the education and school improvement that it would take to accomplish this.

If we really did what it would take to fix the problem we would be reaping the benifits of lower taxes and more revenue for the many many years.

Your right on a lot of your points but unfortunately a lot of people are happy living on assistance.

In order for them to take advantage of the "education" they have to have the drive to do so. You can not pay enough money to instill this in some people.

[Nukeman]

But Nuke, if the world was perfect, and everybody went off and helped themselves, then why did God ask us to give mercy to the poor?

What is the Mercy we are suppose to be giving them? What is Mercy and not judgement, in this passage of scripture?

I struggle with this and with understanding it all, but it has to have SOME meaning or intent behind the passage....that can relate to the times of today?

jd


p.s. This thread is so long, you are correct that I did not read it!

Do you not feel that mercy is given to these people in the form of assistance for education, housing, and food. The average tax payer out there doesn't question where their money is spent they feel it is for the greater good in general and if that means the social programs than thats great, however; if your going to continue to stand there with your hand out and refuse to attempt to help your self why should anyone else continue to do so.

God said to show mercy on the poor he did not say to place yourself in poverty to do so. God also frowns upon Sloth.

I dont think God meant for us to enable people to maintain a unproductive life just so we can say when we die "see I showed mercy on the poor" I think God would than ask "what did you do to help him help himself".

This is where a lot of lib's lose sight of what conservatives are attempting to do. You can not throw endles amounts of money and expect people to stop taking it. You have to set a goals, without which people left to their own devices would not complete their education or attempt to find a job.

Its not a matter of not willign to help the poor, its a matter of enabeling a type of bahavior that is detremental to both society and the individual in question, also if they have children it affects them greatly as well..

[JohnDoe]

Do you not feel that mercy is given to these people in the form of assistance for education, housing, and food. The average tax payer out there doesn't question where their money is spent they feel it is for the greater good in general and if that means the social programs than thats great, however; if your going to continue to stand there with your hand out and refuse to attempt to help your self why should anyone else continue to do so.

God said to show mercy on the poor he did not say to place yourself in poverty to do so. God also frowns upon Sloth.

I dont think God meant for us to enable people to maintain a unproductive life just so we can say when we die "see I showed mercy on the poor" I think God would than ask "what did you do to help him help himself".

This is where a lot of lib's lose sight of what conservatives are attempting to do. You can not throw endles amounts of money and expect people to stop taking it. You have to set a goals, without which people left to their own devices would not complete their education or attempt to find a job.

Its not a matter of not willign to help the poor, its a matter of enabeling a type of bahavior that is detremental to both society and the individual in question, also if they have children it affects them greatly as well..

First, let me be clear that i disagree with the opinions on this board that believe most poor people in this country are lazy, because MOST of the poor in this country are the WORKING poor, not the jobless. I think presuming that most people that are poor because of their own lazyness just might be doing exactly what James 2 warns us about...judging.

Second, I have a hard time with the conflict involved with aborting ones child or bearing ones child, and how it relates to the single mothers receiving welfare, who are the biggest sector of welfare recipiants. I find it hard to deny their children the money needed to feed them or put a roof over their head, because one thing these women chose to do THAT WAS RIGHT, was to bear their children and to NOT abort them....imo... you may differ with this, but it is how i feel about it, and strongly at that!!!

------------------------------------

But getting back to your post Nuke, I don't disagree that what we ultimately want to do is to help these people help themselves, as YOU stated and others have expressed.... and i have to admit, it sounds great, like a good logical stance....setting goals and all.... but i ask, HOW?

What should be done, overall, to help these people help themselves? What are the republican ideas with specifics, that will do this....not just, what i believe, sounds like good, but utopian, talk?

I think it is much more complicated, and harder to achieve than it sounds in words!

jd

[DragonStryk72]

What about the childern in the home?

Do we let them just starve and go without because this woman has made mistakes?

Hell no, we put them in houses with people who have some sense of responsibility. trust me, there are more than enough people in this country looking to adopt, it should not be that big a problem.

[5stringJeff]

Hell no, we put them in houses with people who have some sense of responsibility. trust me, there are more than enough people in this country looking to adopt, it should not be that big a problem.

I'm not arguing that there aren't couples looking to adopt, but I don't think we should take kids from people just because they are poor.

[mrg666]

I'm not arguing that there aren't couples looking to adopt, but I don't think we should take kids from people just because they are poor.

does being poor qualify them as unfit to parent ?
maybe maddona or mrs pitt will come to the rescue but oh no they have to be impoverished 3rd world ( not actually orphaned )

[5stringJeff]

does being poor qualify them as unfit to parent ?

No.

[avatar4321]

I know ive said it before, but I really think this was one of the best threads we ever had.