Sertes - holy shit dude...after your debate with Jim, you STILL believe that tripe?
Sertes - holy shit dude...after your debate with Jim, you STILL believe that tripe?
“… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.
like i said....silversteen was told before 911 that the US govt was going to blow up the WTC so he took advantage of it like the good jew he is and blew up his building for the insurance money so he could build a new building .....
given all your "facts" everyone including the insurance companies are in on it.....and no one is talking.....
which demo company do you think he used......
got a link to any of the tenant's eye witness reports of demo and constrction crews in the building preping it for a pull?
how about copies of the buidling permits to "do construction" ....or is the entire building and inspection department in on it as well?
when do you think the whistle blowers will start comming forword...
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
Sure, why not? If you haven't noticed he didn't answer all the critical issues.
It's two years that I debate this, Jimnyc proved the most polite and one of the most prepared, he surely was very dedicated to the debate even if he mainly posted other people links, he didn't use the cheap rhetoric card until the last post, but the failure is in the position he was supporting, the official version doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.
That's why he still cannot answer easy direct questions like "where was Dick Cheney at 9:30" or "what caused WTC7 collapse" or "what caused the 12-foot round punch out hole at the pentagon"... he is left clueless on the issues the official version doesn't cover.
But I like him, the fact he gets angry and insults away means he is genuine.
So - lemme get this straight:
Is my understanding correct that unless EVERY QUESTION you ask is answered to your satisfaction, you'll continue to believe what you do? What about the hundreds of bits of information to counter 'most' of your claims? It seems to me when you don't like an answer you change the question and claim it was never answered.
“… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
Maybe, that's more reasonable, but no one is blaming the US govt as a whole.
The current working hypotesis is that some elements within the political, military and media elite planned, executed and covered it up.
For example Mineta is a member of the US govt, but he is the most prominent voice of opposition to the official version.
No, why? Like I asked, hypotetically,if you were the insurance company CEO facing people that killed 3000 of their own citizens, why would you try togiven all your "facts" everyone including the insurance companies are in on it.....and no one is talking.....
It's not your money, it's the company money! But the life is yours! So you keep quiet and go with the flow, no one will blame you for sure.
Ask this to Controlled demolition, Inc. , the only company to be allowed to remove the rubble (destroying the crime scene, some say, hint, hint)which demo company do you think he used......
No, that would mean the end of the conspiracy since 9/12. Like I wrote at the end of the debate we only have INDIRECT evidence of the conspiracy, but we also have DIRECT evidence of the official version being false.got a link to any of the tenant's eye witness reports of demo and constrction crews in the building preping it for a pull?
The closest event answering to your question we have is reports of a "construction crew" that had to hastily finish some important works on the South Tower the weekend prior 9/11, where the electricity was cut for more than 20 hours on the upper half of the tower, an unprecedented event, and the "construction crew" worked so hastily and so badly they left everything dirty.
[youtube]zhauHfDJ4b4[/youtube]
Why, is this the element that would make it unbelivable?how about copies of the buidling permits to "do construction" ....or is the entire building and inspection department in on it as well?
All three buildings are owned by the same man, all three buildings security is assigned to a single company. Would it be difficult to bribe someone into silence some month before 9/11 even without having him join the conspiracy? Please, people!
Ehm, they already did. Question is when the american media will start covering them?when do you think the whistle blowers will start comming forword...
look here: http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...5&postcount=48
Or did you mean someone from whitin the conspiracy planning, exectution or coverup acutally accusing himself of being part of the conspiracy that killed 3000 citizens for the sake of truth?
No political party has to gain from 9/11 truth. That the most sad part of 9/11, people acting only for interests rather than protecting people. Like when they said on 9/13 to rescue workers that the air in NY was clear to breath, and now they're dying from lung cancer. Sorry people, no one said that it was easy or that I would never remove the gloves.
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
Why, the fact the official version cannot answer them is not enough?!
Ok, here we go again:
The 9/11 commission has a version, he was at the white house unaware of what's happening. Norman Mineta testimony under oath before the 9/11 commission (later not reported in the 9/11 commission report) places him in command, aware of the pentagon plane position, bearing, altitude, and there was the possibility for a shotdown order.where was dick at 9:30....or better yet where should he have been?
It's covered in much detail here, including a portion of 9/11 commission report, video of the deposition and photo maps of the pentagon area
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...5&postcount=48
It's the single most important issue in 9/11.
A controlled demolition, as explained by 206 engineers and architects: ae911truth.org, right columnwhat caused WTC 7 to collapse?
An explosive directional shockwave from an aircraft similar to either a tomahawk cruise missile or a global hawk drone painted to appear as a miniature 747-200.what caused the 12 foot round hole?
That's the only possibility that doesn't contradict the 12-foot round punch out hole (explosive shockwave), the single engine found at the pentagon, the 12-foot punch-in hole, the lack of the damage from the alleged hit of the rear tail wing of the 747 that is missing in first responders photo, the lack of the damage from the alleged hit of the two 4 tons engines of the 747 that is missing in first responders photo at the sides of the punch-in hole, the high manuvrability experienced from control towers that followed the "pentagon plane" hit, it's consistent with phone calls that could be routed trough it from where the real AA77 was, it's consistent to the fact you won't leave any single human pilot to screw it up a thing so big as 9/11.
Real size CGI plane added over the actual photo of the damage on the pentagon face by first responders, before the pentagon face crumbled
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See some nice dodging during the debate:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...6&postcount=18
Is it just me or has the 'debate' started up again? Put it to rest, it seems no minds were changed. I agree with Jim, but that's beside the point.
he's just after a part in the next wtc movie
the conspiracy directed by
cool....so why did they do all this.....motive.....
by the way your version doesn't answer the questions i posed either....your version answers your questions.....you don't have proof you have guesses.....
tell me ....
is it possible mineta lied to cover his own ass....
is it possible the plane made the round hole?.....is it possible the round hole was made by resuce crews ..... is it possible that something other than what you say made the hole ... made the hole?...photoshop for instance....
is it possible that wtc7 was hit by collateral debri and actually collapsed due to fire and structral damage.....at what point does steel loose it strength due to heat? it doesn't need to melt to colapse and fail....
if the plane hit the ground before it hit the building your diagram doesn't work....
you se if your version became the offical version....your version can not answer my questions to my satisfaction ..... so is that not enough....
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
Why, we're in the conspiracy theory section, can't we talk about this matter?
If someone is interested, and has time to make questions I will find the time to write an answer, even if I covered in the debate, because it's long and complex to read, with all the answers and counter-answers.
Be assured I'll never put a "single sided" version here, I'm not pushing my personal conspiracy theory, I'm interested in showing how and why the official version is fake, so I'll try to put the real evidence and the official version side by side, you decide then.
That's the real question, the motive for the big game, 9/11 itself. I answered it here:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...08&postcount=7
and here:
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...3&postcount=10
You're completely right, you asked me my own questions, I have answers for them.by the way your version doesn't answer the questions i posed either....your version answers your questions.....you don't have proof you have guesses.....
The first misconception about the 9/11 truth movement is that they have no answer for what happened, that's wrong, it's only they usually try to point out where the official version is fake rather than providing a real explanation.
So even if my version has no direct evidence in some points but only indirect evidence, at least it's only consistent with 100% of the evidence as today.
Instead the official version is easier to grasp, it's sold by media by repeating again and again, but it's not consistent with all the evidence, only with 75% of it, the other 25% openly contradicts it. CONTRADICTS.
But since mass media gave away its version, which is consistent with the limited evidence they presented, 9/11 is settled for you (a generic you).
The moment you spend 30 minutes looking at 9/11 by yourself with a clear mind you'll notice all the leaks.
My first answer in the debate, to Jimnyc question "why do you feel 9/11 was an inside job?" is: "because the official version doesn't stand up to close scrutiny"
Yes, sure. It's a very serious offense, lying under oath, if I'm correct your former president was put under impeachment charges for lying under oath (not for the bj itself).tell me ....
is it possible mineta lied to cover his own ass....
But I don't see why should he "cover his own ass", since he was not in charge of anything that day! After all, all hijacking responses were in charge of the DOD, by an order signed 3 months earlier, the person to call was Donald Rumsfeld.
Mineta could not sidestep in the crisis management even if he wanted to. Only someone higher could, and there's not many.
No, the fuselage is the softer part of the plane, it cannot make the impact that disintegrates it, go through the forest of columns and make a 12-foot round punch out hole on the other side of third ring of the pentagon.is it possible the plane made the round hole?
A landing gear wheel or a landing gear pole cannot either.
Sorry if I don't have any precise "official version" to comment, there's no official version on what caused the punch out hole. I keep asking, no one tells me what is the official version on this.
No, they wrote "punch out" on side of it, it's straight on the "alleged plane trajectory", it's round and not regular, a rescue worker would have cut it straight down, rectangular......is it possible the round hole was made by resuce crews
Unlikely, there's multiple photos for it, the official version doesn't dispute the existence of the punch-out hole, just assumes "some part of AA77 made it" some way or the other...... is it possible that something other than what you say made the hole ... made the hole?...photoshop for instance....
It's possible that wtc7 was hit by collateral debris, but that's undocumented.is it possible that wtc7 was hit by collateral debri and actually collapsed due to fire and structral damage.....
It's possible that wtc7 collapsed due to fire and structural damage, but that's undocumented too.
We have only two small fires
And a hole on 7% of the side of the building (photo submitted by Jimnyc during the debate)
With only those evidence existing, it's not strange there's no official explanation of why WTC7 "collapsed". Really, there's none.
The -start- of the collapse is very tecnical and as such is a common straw-man argument: an argument easy to solve (because it's difficult to prove otherwise) in the official way, that hopefully would close the issue.at what point does steel loose it strength due to heat? it doesn't need to melt to colapse and fail....
I can concede the fires started the collapse even if no other steel-framed high-rise building ever fell from fires alone, anytime before nor after 9/11.
But it's the collapse itself is unexplainable:
There's no official explanation of how WTC7 "collapsed"
There's no phisical explanation of why a gravitational collapse can proceed at free fall speed through the path of most resistance
There's no phisical explanation of why a gravitational collapse can leave pools of molten steel found as much as 40 days later.
It didn't, the lawn is intact in EVERY photo of the pentagon hit.if the plane hit the ground before it hit the building your diagram doesn't work....
In first responders photo, just after the hit:
and even after the pentagon face fell:
(edit: changed the photo to a smaller one, the first one was too wide)
I wait for your considerations on the material I submitted, because if I answered all your points, you have a problem here.you se if your version became the offical version....your version can not answer my questions to my satisfaction ..... so is that not enough....
Last edited by Sertes; 11-02-2007 at 07:47 AM.