New Mod - Logroller

[Jeff]

Well, the verdict is in; DP is now a bastion of liberal groupthink with any hint of conservative opinion now pounced upon and ridiculed with all the fervor that should meet similar ignorant twaddle. I would like to publicly apologize to all of those who correctly predicted the demise of this fine virtual institution; any hint of opposition that I proffered is hereby withdrawn.

LIBERAL

[aboutime]

LIBERAL

Jeff. It now appears OBAMACARE has finally infiltrated DP.

My apologies go out to jimnyc for being unable to stop the Liberal cluster, about to take over.

[jimnyc]

Don't kill me for necroposting!!

I saw a bot visiting this thread and decided to take a peek. Didn't even remember the saga of all of this but was also cool to just re-read some POV's and some names I miss!

And it's been 8 years since this thread and curious between how we all looked at things compared with today!

I fully understand what you are saying Jim. Not trying to diminish your decisions here in any way.
But...it's no accident that I....and possibly several other members here. Have heard the very same words spoken by others in the past.
We were given all the same reassurances. Then... You'll see.
POLITICS and Internet Forums are so similar. GOOD LUCK.

Looking back, I still see and understand where many opinions came from and why they were valid. But I hope time will be nice to me and folks will see what my thinking was over the years. As you can see, the one thing learned was that no way any one member was going to do anything to the vision of the board and how it went forward. And so long as everyone agreed with freedom of speech and freedom to really discuss anything within mature limitations, so long as the few rules weren't violated/abused. That was the vision in 2003 and still stands today. Not everything was quite that right and I made plenty of mistakes though that have us where we are today.

But I hope my word and reassurances came to fruition. In real life, when I give someone my word, I was told it should be treated as gold. Not told actually, but rather raised that way. So I always took my word serious and that's carried over to online. If I say or declare something, I do my utmost best to honor that throughout. But not really hard since the things I say are who I am and what I do myself. So easy on that one. But takes more than just following principles of freedoms.

My most immediate reaction to this decision was astonishment.

Jim, I will persevere with this forum - to an extent, anyway - to see how this pans out. But I'll be honest enough to make it very clear that I see this as Aboutime does.

We shall see where this new status quo leads. And ... even FJ has made a point I can take on board (!). We do, indeed, 'live in interesting times'.

I absolutely have to say this, even if I earn censure for it ... I remain stunned by this decision.

No matter any differences with Drummond, and especially with him not here right now, only want to say that I understand where his feelings came from - but again I hope even he from afar and others will see that the astonishment and concern about a 'liberal' infiltrating and harming somehow - didn't and wasn't going to happen. Again, with it seen elsewhere, I understand. But wasn't and didn't happen here.

Are you astonished because I made a decision that you think is harmful to the board, or because I chose someone that you don't particularly have a lot of love for?

What "I" want out of this board, and the freedoms I've afforded without crazy moderation, will NOT be changing. Even if between the worst of enemies, staff is not allowed to do anything I wouldn't do myself. To put it bluntly, I have ideas of where I would like to see the board go and how I would want it ran - and staff is an extension of that, to basically do what I would do.

People have been telling me for 10 years now how my patience and dedication to freedom of speech won't last. But it has. And it's not going to change. The day I become overbearing and more interested in moderating than provoking good discussion, I'll sell off or give the board away.

If I thought for a NYC second that Logroller would ever moderate unfairly, I wouldn't have asked him to come aboard. With that said, it can't fail. For starters, I wouldn't allow it too, as I love this place and will always stick to my principles. Secondly, and more important, give him a chance outside of a debate to see how he moderates. He's proved his fairness and maturity to me for a few years. Being polar opposites on some heated topics doesn't mean you guys can't agree on what is best for the board.

I know I screwed up in many areas, but I am of the hope that my intention of freedom of speech always did last and never did waver.

Thank You Sir Drummond. You managed to say, almost exactly what I was at a loss for saying. Probably due to my past experience where attempting to deal with others in explaining the UNFORSEEN consequences of certain actions.. is often ignored.
Of course. Those who always oppose making such statements based on experience. Always seem to find that invisible, but workable tact of pretending to be something, or someone they really are not. To achieve their ultimate goal.
Personally. Like you. I have experienced the betrayal, and guaranteed promises too many times to just shrug them off, and pretend they aren't real here.
Guess Jim will just have to learn, on his own. As I have stated before.
Since I, and WE are not capable, or knowledgeable enough to just enjoy the promised STATUS QUO being offered up.

I hope I also proved this to AT and others that I wasn't going to allow myself or staff as a whole to be duped or infiltrated or changed the idea of freedom of speech and what was allowed on the board and what wasn't allowed.

Thanks for the well thought out post. I'll try to reply the best I can.

This board has never been about me, and my way or the highway. I've done my best over the years to include staff on decisions AND the entire community on some decisions. Yes, it is my board, but I try to always do what is best for the community as a whole. None of the shenanigans you endured elsewhere will be applied here, whether it may feel that way or appear that way at times.

There will always be fairness in moderation here and NO ONE will ever tell others how they should post. Take away the individuality and I'm not surprised boards that employ that crap will fail.

While things aren't perfect here, do you think I've been anything but fair to you guys? And I believe you broke the 6 week barrier here too! Nothing is going to change. The rules remain the same. The debates will be the same. No one is going to be unfairly moderated or eaten alive because Log became a moderator.

We could have 19 leftie moderators and then me - and things still wouldn't change. The board is what it is, so long as I own it, and won't be changing.

Oh, and I don't think Log is a leftie!

I tried my best to engage staff members in any changes to the community, and the community itself many many engagements for feedback before changes as well. I always thought it best that the community itself determined the road ahead for that very community, and did my best to apply that. Not perfect but we all did pretty well I thought!!

Couldn't you guys perhaps stop judging my board based on past bad experiences?

I think I've been nothing but fair with all of you, even those that disagree with this decisions. You're all still here posting. The worst anyone has seen has been a small handful of thread bans, and maybe some posts clipped and moved to the cage. At least save your ammo and let me have it when you actually see anything unfair.

Not sure if I was cranky or what back then! But not only didn't Logroller come aboard and apply non-stop liberal agendas, or ban anyone, he's not even been around here for ages. Contrary to some opinions back in the past, I thought he was pretty cool, just like many others, even if not a card carrying member of the Chicken Hawk Club I belong to filled with psycho conservatives wanting to bomb anyone who wrongs us.

Oh, I believe you! Anyone wanting an idea of what a left wing kook ran site looks like, simply go to democraticunderground! All you need do there is introduce yourself as a republican and they will ban you. They WANT voices from only one side. My old board, which went from like 500,000 posts to about 7 million since I sold it, is infested with chaos and fighting. Great, threads are 20 pages long an hour after you start them, but they are useless. I know what you speak of.

But one man is not an infestation, and he's not the type you would ever find schmoozing over at DU either. I know you may not want to hear it, but he's WAY more conservative than he is a leftie - just not entirely right wing cool nutcases like you and I.

The only thing I would like to get overrun by is good discussions. If what you saw at that old board ever happens here - remind me - I'll pay the fees for a new domain and hosting and start us a new website myself!

8 years later and DU is still a liberal shithole that will ban anyone for even thinking in their head about conservatism. Seriously, they have some device that follows your thoughts constantly to ensure you aren't one of those disgusting righties! And our old hangout still grows and grows in posts - pushing at the 27 million mark now!! And worse than ever, in my humble and biased opinion. But insults disrupting threads isn't difficult to find, many 20-50 pages long, and just filled with non-stop of that. But hey, in all seriousness, some are all for that kind of action. So be it and great for them and good luck! Just simply not my cup of tea, even if I do enjoy a good debate disagreement. But every single thread in every single forum and endless pages long? So in 8 years.....

What's currently happening at USMB is a joke. A fucking joke. Over moderated horseshit, vile and disgusting posts, constant arguing, no serious discussion, no respect. It is really not worth trying to start an honest, serious discussion over there...

Can't speak to inner workings, just looks like mass confusion to me and I wouldn't join after reading as a guest. Not where I would have brought it, but they also created a place with a ton of members. So..... not sure what folks would want.

That's all I ask of you guys, to give it time before you jump off the cliff. Like stated earlier, so long as rules don't get broken, no one has a thing at all to worry about. I see no reason to believe that the way you guys are treated now, won't be the same way going forward. No moderation will happen unless someone is deserving of it. And considering I think everyone in this thread are honorable adults, I think we can all admit when we might have went over the line. I know I've done it hundreds of times!

I hope everyone still believes this true for all of us!

Yeah, it's sad to look at it and think back to what it once was. It's proof that sheer volume and numbers won't produce quality. Open any good subject, it's 102 pages long and 102 different subjects and 102 different arguments going on. Our problems here are tame in comparison! I still dare anyone that thinks we aren't fair to go and join DU and attempt to be reasonable. I wouldn't ask people to troll elsewhere as I wouldn't want it done here. But you'll be absolutely reasonable and gone real quick. Just tell them you're a Ronald Reagan fan from way back!

Still referring old joint and then DU - and both still suck as pointed out. And we're still fairer than DU!

Do not sweat it AT. About 18 months ago I stepped down as a mod over my feud with Conman. The reason was Jim holds his staff members to a much higher standard then he does regular members. The feud with Conman was down and dirty and being a staff member Jim did not want me getting that dirty with him

So the same will apply to LR - as it does with every staff member

Bottom line is. just follow the rules and you will not even know LR is a mod. \

Hey it is not like Jim made FU or Gabby a mod. Jim picked the best liberal we have here for the job

Yeps, was true then and still true today. Only just without Log,

I'm as guilty as anybody about this getting mad and demanding a refund. However, running a message board takes work and some sacrifices are necessary to acquire free labor. It means being managed by people dumb enough to give away free labor. Unless you're willing to pay a monthly subscription fee to be managed by true professionals, you should happily accept what you get for the price you are paying.

NO REFUNDS!! Although Psychoblues complained to Paypal once and got his own refund - and stayed too.

Give it up, Kathianne. You can't teach the the stupid how not to be stupid.

And yet for whatever frustrating reason, I tried with you for years and years.

Personally...I think Logroller is a pretty good choice.... I see him as a more center Left Libertarian type, not a pure Liberal.

And we need Mods that will be able to understand both positions LEFT and RIGHT, Liberal and Conservative.

The Board needs Liberal Posters... if all the Mods are Conservative and all the Members posting are conservative the board will stagnate and falter.

we conservatives need to be a little less hostile to the Liberals who post here. By doing so we'll attract new members and the board will grow.

and certain unnamed liberals need to stop trolling and start debating.

We also need to cut down the Islam attacks... Are their problems in Islam? Certainly.

But if every thread is an attack against Jafar, nobody will want to join the board.

so lets dull our tongues and sharpen our debate skills.... I stand behind NUKE/TRIGG and LOGROLLER.

Good Choices Jim...

Wiccan Liberal approved of this message.... we stand together on this.

First, I miss Mark aka V4R. And looking back he was so so spot on, even if I didn't fully agree at the time. Mark should have been made "manager" here, as he could have made the tough organizational decisions and maybe brought in new folks and been the one in charge of member retention. He could have been successful in the many areas I failed or was incompetent at.

Even if Gabby sent a real life photo of her boobies to Jim, she will still never be made a Mod.
Take it to the bank.

They would have helped, no doubt in my mind. But takes more than boobies to infiltrate staff. But absolutely no doubt that boobies would help avoid bans and give you favoritism. Just being honest here guys! Boobies and you guys get the crappy end of the stick, no doubt in my mind.

That's why they were brought on, to solely keep an eye on that filthy bastard named Logroller!

In the past, during our "transition years", I had a few FAR left liberals as staff members. I liked them, or they wouldn't have been asked to come on board. But some fears were realized and a few things got out of hand, not as much on the board as it was within staff (turmoil). The problem was fixed. End of issue.

People can accuse me of being a dick for 10 years, and I may even admit to some of it! - but when it comes to moderating? I fired my brother, Sir Evil, at least like 10x. My sister at one point was banned for life. Jeff, who now posts, took a hiatus at one point because I wouldn't allow certain things. In other words, I held my own family to certain standards. That should be enough assurance that I won't let any person or group to ruin what we have here. Whether all liberal staff, or all conservative staff - decisions will always be handled maturely and fairly.

Told you all! Brought him on to keep a keen eye and then utilized my mind skills and he bailed.

Clearly my filthy leftie bastard postings have been so egregious that making me a moderator was the only avenue available to admin. I've been muzzled with authority, rather than by it. Well- played Jim. Ne'er saw it coming.

Yup, played you like a fiddle! Sent you into the stratosphere never to be seen again!

this thread was much funnier when you were all bitching about Logroller instead of each other.

This whole board was much funnier when you were still posting here and calling everyone dumbasses!

Well Jim, I admit to having had the same thoughts back then. Some of us immigrants from the other board saw how piss poor moderating and bias against us as a group went there. Taft was in that group and was mistreated by some lefty mods and admin -THERE! My hope is that he sees that has not been the case here and accepts your word on it is not ever going to be the case here. I have seen nothing bad coming from Log ,just being himself which is to be expected. No power mad abuse that we've seen at other sites. Hopefully Taft will start posting again. You have to admit that the man stood his ground come hell or high water and didn't mind broadsiding anybody that got too smartass with him. Some people respect that.. -Tyr

Why I always loved Tyr so much. Speaks his mind when not happy and the first to jump in when he saw I was standing by what I said.

I thought everything was still Bush's fault!

And 8 years later perhaps more so - and now we have a new Bush called "Trump's fault". Point being that leftists never ever take responsibility, whether that be personally or within government.

Hope it isn't wrong to have repointed all this out, but I saw it all in a positive manner! Still learning from other myself, and even better looking back sometimes and seeing some folks I miss.

[Abbey Marie]

I must admit I didn’t remember any of this. At least we had some passion, right?

[SassyLady]

I liked logroller because he brought a different perspective. I don't come here to hear an echo. I want robust discourse.