As a spin off of another thread.
Quote Originally Posted by FJ
There are natural rights given by God and then there are rights in the Constitution given by man. The right to marriage isn't in there. Right of Association is in there though. Contract "rights" are granted by States UCCs.
Quote Originally Posted by revelarts
Uh NO.
there are no rights "given by man".
Man can recognize rights but not give rights.
man can protect rights
but sadly often man takes rights away.... or assume they can give them to others which is the same thing really.

FJ if you make biz deal you may AGREE to an arbitrator for ALL disputes, COMPLETELY without ANY gov't.

the gov't does not privilege you to create a contract. period.
you can make one and be subject to U.S. law if you like. but if not you don't have to.

look the CLEAR thing is human relations and agreements, are a God given human right.
the Constitution tells the gov't WHAT authority it has, not what rights the people have FJ.
that's the basic understanding to the constitution and freedom.
Quote Originally Posted by FJ
I might have to give a nod to Gunny but I think it boils down to a semantic argument. Natural Rights are God given, anything listed in the Constitution is granted by man. God doesn't give you the right to bear arms.

But I'm not sure what to make of the rest of the post. Legislation determines who can engage in a contract and the courts resolve disputes when arbitration is not a factor.

Ok since I must be brief

Let look at the wording of the 2nd amendment, other amendments are worded similarly.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Notice it Does Not say we GRANT the right.
it says THE RIGHT OF THE THE PEOPLE.... shall not be Infringed.
It's ASSUMED that the right is already there.
Infringed by whom? the Gov't.


It's A$$ backwards and just the opposite of revolutionary thinking to assert that the Gov't grants rights.
It's the Exact opposite of what the founders were going for.
they where REJECTING the divine right of Kings and gov'ts over the people and placing the PEOPLE'S Natural rights at the top of the pyramid.

today many have a hard time REALLY believing THEY are the real BOSSES, KINGS, SOVEREIGNS.
and that the gov't is the one GRANTED rights