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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Again, presumption, and contradiction.


    You want the government to control the shit or not? Make up your mind. Can't have both and it isn't going to be your way. Nothing I hated worse in the Marine Corps and/or civilian job World was getting stuck with all the responsibility but given no authority to make it work. That's what you want.


    The government's responsible but should hold only providers accountable for the actions of the individuals, but don't dare let the government tell you, the individual what to do That's horse shit.

    Why are you pretending that you think the gov't has to have Dictatorial Control or Nothing? Or that I should think that?

    Seems like youre just dancing around the questions again.
    Or you're pretending to try oversimplify what you know is the complexity of govt.

    The question of what role the gov't plays vs individual freedom is what the founders were working out.
    the constitution is the base line for the role of the federal gov't.
    Local limited gov't is the next line of gov't and it's based on fundamental moral principals that translate into laws.
    A framework that sets broad boundaries for freedom.

    In this case the moral and legal line of the framework that the pharma companies crossed is,
    number 1, they have LIED to their customers, the Drs and the patients. In law that's called Fraud.
    So yes they are responsible for that.
    The next legal line they've crossed is bribery. Bribery used to facilitate the fraud.
    Bribery to doctors and to gov't officials.

    Fraud and Bribery that lead to mass deaths.
    Which, at the least, is manslaughter.

    They are responsible and should be (have been in some cases) held legally accountable.
    Last edited by revelarts; 11-09-2023 at 07:37 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Why are you pretending that you think the gov't has to have Dictatorial Control or Nothing? Or that I should think that?

    Seems like youre just dancing around the questions again.
    Or you're pretending to try oversimplify what you know is the complexity of govt.

    The question of what role the gov't plays vs individual freedom is what the founders were working out.
    the constitution is the base line for the role of the federal gov't.
    Local limited gov't is the next line of gov't and it's based on fundamental moral principals that translate into laws.
    A framework that sets broad boundaries for freedom.

    In this case the moral and legal line of the framework that the pharma companies crossed is,
    number 1, they have LIED to their customers, the Drs and the patients. In law that's called Fraud.
    So yes they are responsible for that.
    The next legal line they've crossed is bribery. Bribery used to facilitate the fraud.
    Bribery to doctors and to gov't officials.

    Fraud and Bribery that lead to mass deaths.
    Which, at the least, is manslaughter.

    They are responsible and should be (have been in some cases) held legally accountable.
    The entire premise of this argument is speculation, not fact. Again, there is no need to dance around your arguments as one has to dance enough to keep up with their wil-o-wisp nature.

    If there was provable bribery and fraud it would be in court. When and where it is or has been in court, it is being accounted for. There's a difference between a lie and what you do or do not believe.

    Fact is, you want to have your cake and eat it too.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    The entire premise of this argument is speculation, not fact. Again, there is no need to dance around your arguments as one has to dance enough to keep up with their wil-o-wisp nature.

    If there was provable bribery and fraud it would be in court. When and where it is or has been in court, it is being accounted for. There's a difference between a lie and what you do or do not believe.

    Fact is, you want to have your cake and eat it too.
    The court system moves slowly. It is making its way. Give it time.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    The court system moves slowly. It is making its way. Give it time.
    The thing is we have to remember,
    how many cigarette executives ever went to prison or even got fined for knowingly lying about the dangers of the products. Or for intentionally making them MORE addictive. Even after literally having company documents and whistle blowers proving in court that they had done the studies decades earlier that showed the dangers, had paid to have fake studies done, created propaganda calling others studies "junk science", had intentionally made the products MORE addictive and that multiple companies had agreed (colluded, conspired) to keep the real info away from the public for as long as possible.
    None? I'm talking about the executives, paid propagandist or the bought off gov't officials or bureaucrats.
    the companies got fined and sued, yes, but people in jail or personal bank accounts touched?
    (BTW bank collapse of 2007–8. No bank or brokerage executive ever went to jail ethier)



    And cigarettes are just a recreational drug/product.
    But the drugs Big Pharma sells are supposedly "for medicinal purposes".
    They have a natural aura of defense, in that, at times we really need them.

    No one (mostly) wants to think that their doctors are ignorant (or knowing) tools of money hungry drug companies.


    Last edited by revelarts; 11-10-2023 at 09:14 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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