Court-martial of officer who refused to go to Iraq begins

[Gunny]

I need no educating to why the US went into Iraq. At its most basic, the US got caught with its pants down re 9-11. There had to be a public display to let the world know they couldn't fuck with the US. Iraq was that public display. However, knowing the lessons of Vietnam and the importance of public opinion, going in under those circumstances would not be worn by the public, so a convoluted excuse had to be found. The Neocons led by Peale, Wolfowitz and Rummy (to a degree), found their excuses, gave 'em to the public - and voila...

The real point here is that is doesn't matter whether or not you think you need educating on Iraq. That is a different subject and irrelevant to the charges.

A good judge is not going to allow Watada to put the Iraq War on trial in his courtroom. He will be tried on the charges against him. He's not being tried for personally disagreeing with the Iraq War.

Military courts aren't three-ring circuses run by justices with political ambitions/agendas. In this case, a smart judge and a smart prosecutor is going to cut short ANY attempt to deflect from answering the specific charges against Watada, and in my experience, most of them are smart. They're certainly smart enough to not allow Watada to politicize the trial.

[OCA]

Huh? Who are the perverts? Who are the losers? Who are the traitors? If a man cannot make a decision on a course of action that could cost him his life, then he is not a man. Watada has more nads than most knowing the ridicule he has set himself up for. I doubt he is a coward in that he did go to Afghanistan (if memory serves). Unlike something like WWII, Iraq is not an open and shut case. Like Vietnam, the whys and wherefors are at best, blurry. I wouldn't go either....or I would with conditions - one of Bush's daughters come with me...or any one of those chickenhawk's kids would do..



Stop with the pretense. You know I'm not....

Why don't we ask the other guys in his unit if he has nads.

This piece of shit is a fucking traitor.

[OCA]

I hope he gets off, but if not, a couple of years at most in the slammer. Giving him the death penalty would be way over the top. Same with life imprisonment. If he gets either of those, I hope it is headline news, which hopefully would mean a sharp drop in folks joining the military.

Why do you always root for that which normal Americans KNOW is wrong?

[jillian]

Why do you always root for that which normal Americans KNOW is wrong?

First, he isn't American. You know that.

Second.... you sure about what "normal" Americans know?

(CBS) Public support for U.S. involvement in Iraq continues to fall. By two to one, Americans reject financing the war through an increased federal deficit, and 62% would finance paying for the rebuilding of the Gulf Coast by cutting spending in Iraq.

More than half of Americans think Iraq is not secure enough to hold its constitutional referendum in just under a week, and many doubt that country will ever become a stable democracy.


U.S. INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ

Public opinion is now fairly solidly against the war in Iraq. More than half of Americans – 55% - think the U.S. should have stayed out of Iraq (the highest figure to date), while 41% think taking military action there was the right thing to do. As the war began, Americans overwhelmingly approved of U.S. action against Iraq; 69% said the U.S. did the right thing in taking military action (the highest level of support in our polls for the war). Support for the war waned in 2004.

(MORE)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in930772.shtml

[trobinett]

When all the BS goes to sleep, at the end of the day, as an officer in the UNITED STATES MILITARY you can not pick and choose what war, what issue, what side, what belief, you think, that you will support by your participation.

I've seen this shit before, in Vietnam we had those, that felt their religion, or their beliefs, or their upbringing didn't allow participation in the war. All we are seeing now is a repeat of the same shit. I'm discussed, and these fucks should be taken to the Matt, bitch slapped, and left for dead.

Make any statement you want, BEFORE you put you signature on the line. After that, your ass is Uncle Sam's.

Got it?

[Dilloduck]

First, he isn't American. You know that.

Second.... you sure about what "normal" Americans know?



(MORE)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in930772.shtml

Poll#s----:wank2: ---worthless.

[OCA]

Poll#s----:wank2: ---worthless.

Especially a CBS News poll.

[Gunny]

First, he isn't American. You know that.

Second.... you sure about what "normal" Americans know?



(MORE)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in930772.shtml

Jillian ...

I'm not picking at you personally, but the problem as I see it, is you cannot divorce the charges against Lt Watada from his opinion of the War in Iraq. Either that or you can and won't.

First off, I'll accept poll results from CBS about like you will Ann Coulter. They probably took it in a welfare check-cashing line, or at Berkley.

The people with military experience here have kept trying to tell you ... Lt Watada's court martial is not about the Iraq War. The charges against him are not about the Iraq War.

They are specific violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Why are they covered by specific Articles within the UCMJ? This has been tried before.

I can certainly attest to the fact that the Marine Corps prosecutes for missing movement and failure to obey an order. There's usually that one knucklehead on evey deployment that thinks he's smarter than the system.

Lt Watada's personal opinion of the war is a non-factor. Personal political beliefs are NOT considered justification to refuse to obey an order in the military. It's as simple as that.

[OCA]

First, he isn't American. You know that.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? He's wearing the uniform of the U.S. Army, isn't he? He signed the pledge when he entered, didn't he? Nobody held a gun to his head when he signed the pledge, did they?

There is no maybe i'll obey or maybe I won't in the military, you either obey the orders you are given or you get bent. What he thinks about U.S. policy in Iraq, moral or immoral, is absolutely fucking irrelevant.

[Gunny]

What the hell does that have to do with anything? He's wearing the uniform of the U.S. Army, isn't he? He signed the pledge when he entered, didn't he? Nobody held a gun to his head when he signed the pledge, did they?

There is no maybe i'll obey or maybe I won't in the military, you either obey the orders you are given or you get bent. What he thinks about U.S. policy in Iraq, moral or immoral, is absolutely fucking irrelevant.

I think she's talking about your favorite buddy, grumpystiltskin.

He's not American.

[OCA]

I think she's talking about your favorite buddy, grumpystiltskin.

He's not American.

Which makes all his bitching even more bizarre.

[darin]

A little bird just walked by...Trial is over - will re-convene in a couple months...

[5stringJeff]

That bird told me to link to:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...ml?source=mypi

Now return the phone.

[Mr. P]

Very interesting.

[Grumplestillskin]

First off, I'll accept poll results from CBS about like you will Ann Coulter. They probably took it in a welfare check-cashing line, or at Berkley.

Poll participants are picked randomly. There is no political affiliations (unless it is a political poll and one of the questions ask if they are a member of the DEM/GOP organisations....If Anne does her polls the same way, there won't be a problem...