My disdain for the poor.

[Abbey Marie]

the sollution involves a good, equal, education in the elementary and high school years.

which does involve via laws, some federal dollars now, about 7% of the bill for education, I believe the states/towns/cities supply over 90% of the cost of education....or something like this....and according to my interpretation of the constitution, education is delegated to the states, not the Feds, but setting this aside...

If every citizen had an equally good education in their youth, then we would not have as many problems with poverty, later in life....imho.

I must strongly disagree with your premise. Our district still buses kids from downtown to the suburbs, and vice versa. Exactly the same amount of dollars are spent on straight education, but minorities in reality receive more dollars due to busing done for their benefit, free or reduced breakfast and lunches, special services such as one on one mentoring, etc., etc. YET, black kids still under-perform by a large margin, and are disproportionately high in discipline problems.

The reasons are simple, IMO:

1. Education must be valued at home. This includes parents showing interest in school work, caring about grades.
2. Education must be valued in the culture. Accusing a good black student of "acting white" doesn't help the situation.
3. There needs to be a stable home life, preferably with a present and involved father, too.
4. There must be a positive attittude towards authority at home, including school admin and teachers.
5. Reading should be modeled, and encourged at a very young age.

If these things are not present, there isn't much the schools can do but babysit future dropouts, while our tax dollars get thrown at a problem that can't be solved by tax dollars. Oh, and that means, at least in our district, less money available for the upper end students, who are viewed as being able to take care of themselves in an AP Calculus class of 37 students, for example.

[Nukeman]

What about the childern in the home?

Do we let them just starve and go without because this woman has made mistakes?

Ohhh great here come the vaunted Liberal rallying cry of "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN".

Our poor in the US are some of the fattest people on the earth.

If your really concerned about "the children" see postmodernprophets charity and help them.

There are more than ample programs to ensure these children recieve an education as well are properly fed and clothed. Remember SHE HAD HER CHILDREN NOT ANYONE ELSE. She choose to continue to have more even though she was poor. Where is her RESPONSIBILITY..........

[truthmatters]

Ohhh great here come the vaunted Liberal rallying cry of "WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN".

Our poor in the US are some of the fattest people on the earth.

If your really concerned about "the children" see postmodernprophets charity and help them.

There are more than ample programs to ensure these children recieve an education as well are properly fed and clothed. Remember SHE HAD HER CHILDREN NOT ANYONE ELSE. She choose to continue to have more even though she was poor. Where is her RESPONSIBILITY..........

What are these programs that you are talking about?

[truthmatters]

I must strongly disagree with your premise. Our district still buses kids from downtown to the suburbs, and vice versa. Exactly the same amount of dollars are spent on straight education, but minorities in reality receiving more dollars due to busing done for their benefit, free or reduced breakfast and lunches, special services such as one on one mentoring, etc., etc. YET, black kids still under-perform by a large margin, and are disproportionately high in discipline problems.

The reasons are simple, IMO:

1. Education must be valued at home. This includes parents showing interest in school work, caring about grades.
2. Education must be valued in the culture. Accusing a good black student of "acting white" doesn't help the situation.
3. There needs to be a stable home life, preferably with a present and involved father, too.
4. There must be a positive attittude towards authority, including school admin and teachers.
5. Reading should be modeled, and encourged at a very young age.

If these things are not present, there isn't much the schools can do but babysit future dropouts, while our tax dollars get thrown at a problem that can't be solved by tax dollars. Oh, and that means, at least in our district, less money available for the upper end students, who are viewed as being able to take care of themselves in an AP Calculus class of 37 students, for example.

I agree with many of your points here but the only way to achieve these things in the household is to use a combination of programs to teach both parent and child how to implinment these things into their lives.

All it would take is a comprehensive attempt by our country to achieve this for 20 years.

You see you just need to catch one full genration to really impact the change then you would reap the rewards in increased tax base for generations.

Imagine if instead of doing Iraq we had stayed on AQs But in Afganistan to really fight who we needed to and then took the money we would have saved and Put it to this Aim?

Wow what a differnce we could have made.

[Abbey Marie]

I agree with many of your points here but the only way to achieve these things in the household is to use a combination of programs to teach both parent and child how to implinment these things into their lives.

All it would take is a comprehensive attempt by our country to achieve this for 20 years.

You see you just need to catch one full genration to really impact the change then you would reap the rewards in increased tax base for generations.

Imagine if instead of doing Iraq we had stayed on AQs But in Afganistan to really fight who we needed to and then took the money we would have saved and Put it to this Aim?

Wow what a differnce we could have made.

We have been throwing money at educational programs for decades. We even have free pre-school for poor kids. Affirmative action. Financial Aid. The list goes on and on. The problems continue. Fundamental change in lifestyle cannot be fixed with money. Change tends to come from within and from family role-modeling.

Even when someone beloved by the black community like Bill Cosby tries to point out the effects of these poor choices, he is villified. A white person could never say those things. And walking on eggshells will never fix any problem.

Until people stop making poor choices, passing their poor cultural choices on to their ill-afforded children, disrespecting authority, and expecting the gov't to bail them out when things go wrong, the cycle will roll on indefinitely. No amount of education or money will change that. And walking on eggshells so as not to "offend" won't help anything.

The generation of blacks who are elderly now get it.

[JohnDoe]

I must strongly disagree with your premise. Our district still buses kids from downtown to the suburbs, and vice versa. Exactly the same amount of dollars are spent on straight education, but minorities in reality receive more dollars due to busing done for their benefit, free or reduced breakfast and lunches, special services such as one on one mentoring, etc., etc. YET, black kids still under-perform by a large margin, and are disproportionately high in discipline problems.

The reasons are simple, IMO:

1. Education must be valued at home. This includes parents showing interest in school work, caring about grades.
2. Education must be valued in the culture. Accusing a good black student of "acting white" doesn't help the situation.
3. There needs to be a stable home life, preferably with a present and involved father, too.
4. There must be a positive attittude towards authority at home, including school admin and teachers.
5. Reading should be modeled, and encourged at a very young age.

If these things are not present, there isn't much the schools can do but babysit future dropouts, while our tax dollars get thrown at a problem that can't be solved by tax dollars. Oh, and that means, at least in our district, less money available for the upper end students, who are viewed as being able to take care of themselves in an AP Calculus class of 37 students, for example.

I agree with most of what you have said as part of the solution, however an equal education to me does not mean bussing kids to a school in a good neighborhood, to me it means having an equally good school in their OWN neighborhood, regarless of the small amounts of property tax they have to work with.

If there were a good, clean, and educationally sound school in their own neghborhoods to be proud of instead of envious of because they are bussed to it, would be an equally provided education.

And as it stands now, this is NOT at ALL the way it is....Abbey.

And maybe some states should go to massachusetts to see how it is done....they have one of the best educational systems in the nation....or they should visit one of the other top 5 in education, states to see how they do it?

btw, how do you plan to truely change the family values of those that you speak about...?

jd

[JohnDoe]

Remember! For those of you that are Christians!

James 2
Favoritism Forbidden

1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself,"[a] you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"[b] also said, "Do not murder."[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

What do you all think this Scripture means?

jd

[truthmatters]

We have been throwing money at educational programs for decades. We even have free pre-school for poor kids. Affirmative action. Financial Aid. The list goes on and on. The problems continue. Fundamental change in lifestyle cannot be fixed with money. Change tends to come from within and from family role-modeling.

Even when someone beloved by the black community like Bill Cosby tries to point out the effects of these poor choices, he is villified. A white person could never say those things. And walking on eggshells will never fix any problem.

Until people stop making poor choices, passing their poor cultural choices on to their ill-afforded children, disrespecting authority, and expecting the gov't to bail them out when things go wrong, the cycle will roll on indefinitely. No amount of education or money will change that. And walking on eggshells so as not to "offend" won't help anything.

The generation of blacks who are elderly now get it.

There was a recent report I think on the condition of American schools and there ws great disparity in even just the conditions of the buildings.

I will try to go find it for you.

It made points like some school buildings are litterally crumbling do to lack of repair.

[Nukeman]

What are these programs that you are talking about?

Your not serious with this question are you??????????

[Nukeman]

Remember! For those of you that are Christians!



What do you all think this Scripture means?

jd

You need to go back and read the entire post it is not disdain for the poor it is a problem with the government and the writer of the article. This woman made very poor choices in her life she is not a poster child for the advancement and raising of the minimum wage that the intial article was about.

What most are saying is that she has made her choices and she should either rethink her life and quite asking for hand outs.

You should help yourself before asking others..

[truthmatters]

Your not serious with this question are you??????????

lets discuss them and any changes they need?

[truthmatters]

We have been throwing money at educational programs for decades. We even have free pre-school for poor kids. Affirmative action. Financial Aid. The list goes on and on. The problems continue. Fundamental change in lifestyle cannot be fixed with money. Change tends to come from within and from family role-modeling.

Even when someone beloved by the black community like Bill Cosby tries to point out the effects of these poor choices, he is villified. A white person could never say those things. And walking on eggshells will never fix any problem.

Until people stop making poor choices, passing their poor cultural choices on to their ill-afforded children, disrespecting authority, and expecting the gov't to bail them out when things go wrong, the cycle will roll on indefinitely. No amount of education or money will change that. And walking on eggshells so as not to "offend" won't help anything.

The generation of blacks who are elderly now get it.

So what do you see as a solutions other than these programs designed to help change the very problems you are worried about here?

You see even companies start programs to research and solve problems and when something needs fixing they stick to it until it pays off even if that research and development project takes years to reach fruation.
I wish we could run out government more like that dont you?

[JohnDoe]

You need to go back and read the entire post it is not disdain for the poor it is a problem with the government and the writer of the article. This woman made very poor choices in her life she is not a poster child for the advancement and raising of the minimum wage that the intial article was about.

What most are saying is that she has made her choices and she should either rethink her life and quite asking for hand outs.

You should help yourself before asking others..

But Nuke, if the world was perfect, and everybody went off and helped themselves, then why did God ask us to give mercy to the poor?

What is the Mercy we are suppose to be giving them? What is Mercy and not judgement, in this passage of scripture?

I struggle with this and with understanding it all, but it has to have SOME meaning or intent behind the passage....that can relate to the times of today?

jd


p.s. This thread is so long, you are correct that I did not read it!

[truthmatters]

I thought that was Jesus's main message?

I thought he wanted people to care for each other?

[avatar4321]

What about the childern in the home?

Do we let them just starve and go without because this woman has made mistakes?

First, a number of those children at home are already over 18. They could get jobs for themselves if they really had to.

Second, you seem to be ignoring the point where we actually fix the problem by showing her how to manage money in her life and how to self improve her situation. You know actually fix the problem rather than artificially raise the mimimum wage and fix absolutely nothing.