General Wants Gay Ban Lifted

[JackDaniels]

I think letting gays in is a bad idea. Gays like men, so if you have all men, i just think its a bad idea.

its as bad as putting men and women serving in close quarters.

I just think its a bad idea.

You really do not understand the policy. Gays under the policy for the last 15 years are NOT banned from the military.

[Classact]

I spent twenty years in the army and served with gays undoubtedly... I'm sure my commanding officer in one garrison assignment was a lesbian... no she didn't tell... I'm also sure several cooks were gay within units I served but again they never found it necessary to tell.

I think don't ask - don't tell is probablly unconstitutional but great legislation... Since America's founding the common law was brought forward... not the European version but the Pre-Declaration American version of common law was adopted by the US at it founding... these laws reflect the communities where people live... for example if you drive east from Dallas you can drive three hours before being able to buy any type of alcohol... I don't have the right to bother the bible thumpers to insist they provide beer in their supermarkets or 7-11's... The majority of the mob made those laws because they feel comfortable with such laws. The military is a similar community inasmuch there are certain expectations.

The problem is that maybe 3 to 12% of the military would choose to leave the military if they were forced to work openly with gays. So what you may ask... it would cause a draft... even if the figure was 3% there would be another 15% in leadership that would stay in the service due to the retirement investment they have already made. So imagine the law changes and a considerable group of servicemembers exit suddenly, a draft is instituted to fill the gap... the draftees and those hidden in leadership entrapment investments would make openly serving gays and gays in leadership positions impossible.

It's a very bad idea.

The

[bullypulpit]

General Wants Gay Ban Lifted

Military.com | January 03, 2007

In an op-ed published in Tuesday's New York Times, John M. Shalikashvili, retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says Congress should give "serious reconsideration" to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the ban on openly lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel. Shalikashvili, who supported the ban on open service in 1993, writes that "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces," and goes on to say that "Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."

"'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is out of step with both the American public and those within our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, executive director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN). "The counsel of military leaders increasingly supports repeal of the law. Congress must, as General Shalikashvili urges, consider the overwhelming evidence of the past fourteen years. If they do, the clear answer is that we must lift the ban."

Shalikashvili, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs from 1993 to 1997, joins other senior retired military officers who have called for repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." In May 2006, Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (Ret.), the first female three-star officer in Army history, called the law "a hollow policy that serves no useful purpose." Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman, former superintendent of West Point, recently told The New York Times that "It is clear that national attitudes toward this issue have evolved considerably in the last decade. This has been led by a new generation of service members who take a more relaxed and tolerant view toward homosexuality." Retired Admiral John Hutson, who currently serves as Dean of Franklin Pierce Law School, also recently wrote that "It would be a great tragedy if we didn't take advantage of (the) chance to correct a flawed policy."

In 2003, two retired generals and an admiral 'came out' in the New York Times, and in November 2006 fourteen senior retired military officers urged the First Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the ban. They wrote that the law "undermines the military's ability to fulfill its primary mission of providing national security by discouraging the enlistment of gay persons qualified to serve their country and by expelling from the military those who have served with honor."

In today's op-ed, General Shalikashvili writes that "Last year I held a number of meetings with gay soldiers and marines, including some with combat experience in Iraq, and an openly gay senior sailor who was serving effectively as a member of a nuclear submarine crew. These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers."

A December 18th Zogby poll also found that 73% of military personnel polled were comfortable with lesbians and gays.

"General Shalikashvili's statement is the first by a Joint Chiefs Chairman to call for repeal, and as such is enormously significant," said Osburn. "The Pentagon has dismissed more than 11,000 men and women under this law. It is clear that enforcement of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is arbitrary. We continue to lose critical personnel who happen to be gay. As General Shalikashvili points out, continuing to keep this law on the books is detrimental to our national security."

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...RC=airforce.nl

Who cares if you're straight, as long as you can shoot straight?

[glockmail]

Who cares if you're straight, as long as you can shoot straight?

Becasue no one wants a straight shooter poking him up the ass.

[Pale Rider]

I think letting gays in is a bad idea. Gays like men, so if you have all men, i just think its a bad idea.

its as bad as putting men and women serving in close quarters.

I just think its a bad idea.

That is logistical problem number 1. There is no way straight men should be forced into the uncomfortable circumstance of having to be naked in front of someone that is of the same sex and afflicted with a mental illness that makes them sexually attracted to them. It would never work, and the powers to be know it. There is simply not one single scenario where a homo could be incorporated into a basic training situation without problems.

[Pale Rider]

In conclusion... fags in the military, bad idea. Just can't be done.

[actsnoblemartin]

I dont feel gays should be able to serve in the military.

#1 they will be in close quarters with heterosexual men

#2 their lifestyle is deviant (against gods plan and nature)

#3 we must not promote or send the message that being gay is ok, when they cannot have kids without cheating nature to do it.

General Wants Gay Ban Lifted

Military.com | January 03, 2007

In an op-ed published in Tuesday's New York Times, John M. Shalikashvili, retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says Congress should give "serious reconsideration" to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the ban on openly lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel. Shalikashvili, who supported the ban on open service in 1993, writes that "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces," and goes on to say that "Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."

"'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is out of step with both the American public and those within our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, executive director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN). "The counsel of military leaders increasingly supports repeal of the law. Congress must, as General Shalikashvili urges, consider the overwhelming evidence of the past fourteen years. If they do, the clear answer is that we must lift the ban."

Shalikashvili, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs from 1993 to 1997, joins other senior retired military officers who have called for repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." In May 2006, Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (Ret.), the first female three-star officer in Army history, called the law "a hollow policy that serves no useful purpose." Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman, former superintendent of West Point, recently told The New York Times that "It is clear that national attitudes toward this issue have evolved considerably in the last decade. This has been led by a new generation of service members who take a more relaxed and tolerant view toward homosexuality." Retired Admiral John Hutson, who currently serves as Dean of Franklin Pierce Law School, also recently wrote that "It would be a great tragedy if we didn't take advantage of (the) chance to correct a flawed policy."

In 2003, two retired generals and an admiral 'came out' in the New York Times, and in November 2006 fourteen senior retired military officers urged the First Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the ban. They wrote that the law "undermines the military's ability to fulfill its primary mission of providing national security by discouraging the enlistment of gay persons qualified to serve their country and by expelling from the military those who have served with honor."

In today's op-ed, General Shalikashvili writes that "Last year I held a number of meetings with gay soldiers and marines, including some with combat experience in Iraq, and an openly gay senior sailor who was serving effectively as a member of a nuclear submarine crew. These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers."

A December 18th Zogby poll also found that 73% of military personnel polled were comfortable with lesbians and gays.

"General Shalikashvili's statement is the first by a Joint Chiefs Chairman to call for repeal, and as such is enormously significant," said Osburn. "The Pentagon has dismissed more than 11,000 men and women under this law. It is clear that enforcement of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is arbitrary. We continue to lose critical personnel who happen to be gay. As General Shalikashvili points out, continuing to keep this law on the books is detrimental to our national security."

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...RC=airforce.nl

[Pale Rider]

I dont feel gays should be able to serve in the military.

#1 they will be in close quarters with heterosexual men

#2 their lifestyle is deviant (against gods plan and nature)

#3 we must not promote or send the message that being gay is ok, when they cannot have kids without cheating nature to do it.

I just heard the other day in conversation that the number of homos kicked out of the military was down this year, drastically. Sounds like in times of war and bad recruitment, the military decides fags can fight after all. Never thought I'd think bad of the military, but this sounds a lot like turning a blind eye just because they're in need of troops. Sounds like something is rotten to me.

[actsnoblemartin]

I understand that, but i dont think its good for gays to serve at all. Based on their immoral behavior.

I wouldnt want a straight man, if he beats his wife, is a drunk, or you could add other reasons

you need moral people

You really do not understand the policy. Gays under the policy for the last 15 years are NOT banned from the military.

[OCA]

I understand that, but i dont think its good for gays to serve at all. Based on their immoral behavior.

I wouldnt want a straight man, if he beats his wife, is a drunk, or you could add other reasons

you need moral people

And I don't think its good for autistic people to post on message boards based upon their erratic behavior and mental shortcomings.

[5stringJeff]

Speaking of gays in the military...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...&postcount=272

[actsnoblemartin]

Your opinion has nothing to do with this thread, but typical of you.. cant debate someone's opinion, so you take cheap shots.

I may have mental illness, but you have no class, morals, or values

And I don't think its good for autistic people to post on message boards based upon their erratic behavior and mental shortcomings.

[OCA]

Your opinion has nothing to do with this thread, but typical of you.. cant debate someone's opinion, so you take cheap shots.

I may have mental illness, but you have no class, morals, or values

Can't debate someone's opinion? LMFAO! I owned this fucking thread months ago Raymond, you are as typical a day late and a dollar short.

[actsnoblemartin]

youre a disgrace.

Can't debate someone's opinion? LMFAO! I owned this fucking thread months ago Raymond, you are as typical a day late and a dollar short.

[actsnoblemartin]

I think you should be permanently banned from the board.

And I don't think its good for autistic people to post on message boards based upon their erratic behavior and mental shortcomings.