I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)
Gunny (and others):
I have been in the military (1st Signal Battalion, Phu Lam, '68--'69) and I do understand that when you're a soldier and you're undertaking a military operation, you can't have any doubts or hesitations. You have to go full-bore and get the job done. If you hesitate or are indecisive, you're asking for trouble, or defeat.
But somebody also has to look at military ops from a detached, civilian perspective, and ask, "Is this the right mission to be undertaking?" That's all we're doing. And most Americans, and many people in Congress, have come to the conclusion that this was a badly-conceived, badly-planned operation from the start that never should have happened because it was undertaken under false assumptions.
Iraq was the wrong mission at the wrong time. And I don't buy into the notion that if we stay there longer, and put more people into the mission, that we'll ultimately succeed.
We'll never succeed there. The mission was FUBAR from the get-go and the Iraqis (and the rest of the people in the Middle East) are basically crazy and don't really want peace.
It's a hard thing to accept, after we've lost over 3,000 good people and thousands more have been injured. But we need to suck it up and face the fact that a bad leader led us into a bad war. And we need to disengage before we lose any more good people.
Clarify? Yeah. Words mean things. If one extrapolates more than what is written, one is on a fishing expedition since the intent of the accusation is obvious.
It is one Republican calling other Republicans traitors for not supporting the party line.
Speaking of "marching in lockstep," look what happened to Lieberman because he wouldn't. The fact is, partisan politics brought this nonbinding resolution into existence, and I don't see not supporting the Democrat's agenda as "marching in lockstep." In this case, I see it as a vote against pointless stupidity.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
President Bush is hardly a bad leader, and deposing Saddam a noteworthy effort. My criticism has been from day one and still remains the manner in which it was conducted. Sound strategy and tactics were placed second to appeasing world opinion and political correctness. As long as that remains our MO, we aren't going to win ANY wars, and we may as well never leave "the house."
We can just be another "used to be" world power and sit around and wait for the inevitable destruction of our society since we are unwilling to do anything to defend it.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Double check my posts GW. I haven't called anyone a traitor except JFKerry (and you were one of the ones he betrayed) and offered to debate that one in a separate string. Like you, and the Gunny, and The SgtMaj, I speak from personal experience. I can tell you that media coverage when it gets back to the troops doesn't shift thier focus or demoralize them on the spot. They are too busy looking out for each other and getting the mission accomplished. But, at the end of the days fight, when they are sleeping, a bit of a doubt is formed......
Last edited by pegwinn; 02-18-2007 at 01:52 PM.
I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)
what the hell? He was RIGHT? dude - you're making me physically ILL.
Not just you - but the more I'm exposed to how hateful, how destructive, and how anti-Truth liberals are, the more I'm thinking the Human race really won't survive. I'd call into question somebody's sanity who believes American GI's were simply raping and killing, indiscriminately, in the fashion of 'jen-giss' Kahn.
John Kerry is among the worst America has produced. Unethical, Morally bankrupt.
“… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.
Go throw up then. I know personally at least one US soldier who openly admitted to me he executed a member of the VC. In fact his exact words were "I emptied my M-16 into him after he surrended". To be fair, he told me what the guy had done, which was disgusting, but in saying that, it kinda proves that that kinda thing did happen. Where did Kerry mention Genghis Khan? Funny what you say about Kerry, I feel the same way about Bush...shrug...
What he thought was right?
As a Naval Officer, he didn't have to think. What was right was written on paper for him.
If one is given an unlawful order, it is one's duty to refuse to obey it, and immediately report it up the chain of command. Not once, in all the arguments in regard to Kerry, have I seen where he carried out his duties as a Naval officer in this regard. Had he made allegations, the paper trail would most certainly exist somewhere.
No, he come out a couple of years later and makes unsubstantiated allegations that basically sound like a bad Oliver Stone flick, betraying those he served with by branding them war criminals, all so he could jump start a fledgling political career.
In every instance where he is concerned one point stands starkly clear above all others .... everything he says and does is all about John Kerry.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
i know people that took VC up in choppers and tossed them out one at a time till they started talking....big deal....it is war....fight it....the object of war is to win and kill more of them than they kill of you.....
as for kerry....he was a traitor to his own uniform and there was no fucking way i would vote to make him the comander in chief of the military he betrayed.
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
I give you he wasn't the best presidential candidate, but he was better than the guy in the WH at the moment IMO. So much vitriole and crap has been spewed about Kerry, it is hard to separate fact from fiction. Of course those who hate him only believe the bad stuff, which makes him sound worse than he does. I watched the whole speech he gave to the committee back in 1972 or 73 or whenever it was. All the memebers of the committee - Dem and Repub - clapped him at the end of it. I thought it was a good speech..(shrug)