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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrskurtsprincess View Post
    any idea how we won previous wars?
    We won conventional wars like WW1/2 because that's something we are good at. We can destroy shit. Now Vietnam we didn't do to well on, it wasn't a conventional war and was a mistake. We should not have supported the French and been against a people’s rebellion just because they chose communism as their government system.

    I think will win this war just like we one the cold war. Our ideology will last and the Islamists will fail because when you get down to it theirs isn't a good system that anyone outside the ME would want to live under.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalNation View Post
    lol you think that'll fix the problem. Leaders just lead the people behind them. Everyone you kill there will be another to replace him. You can't beat an ideology like this with guns and bombs. It's a propaganda war, a war of hearts and minds, one we're loosing pretty badly right now IMO.
    LMFAO! Another jackass who thinks you can sit down over a falafel and tea and change their minds. Shit, even a couple of Pakistani guys here that I know say that you have to kill every single one of them, there is no negotiating, its fanaticism on a scale never seen before.

    Pull your head out of your ass!

  3. #18
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    Not negotiate let them kill themselves off and protect yourself from them.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    You mean like the one the Times did by letting Judy Miller post all the admin's propaganda in the run up to the Iraq war?

    Might be true.
    all media are scum.....all means all.....

    "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."

    ~Albert Camus

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillian View Post
    You mean like the one the Times did by letting Judy Miller post all the admin's propaganda in the run up to the Iraq war?

    Might be true.
    Here's some more propaganda...

    "One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

    "[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

    "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    "There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

    "We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
    Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Lincoln View Post
    Fair enough answer... I just don't think that's much of a military goal or even a legitimate political one. How can soldiers settle the tribal differences? Soldiers kill people. The only solution there would be to kill all the Sunnis and just let the Shiites take over. But then... the Shiites still have radical Islamic tendencies.

    And I guess I don't know what a defeat would look like, since I think "victory" and "defeat" are the wrong terms here.

    Whole thing's a huge mess. Personal opinion is the military should be used to defend our territory where the defense requires securing land and driving out enemies. Not humanitarian missions, etc.
    Generally but there are advantages to having a friendly country like Iraq when and if it comes to putting boots on the ground in Iran or Syria. Free financially sucessful countries inhabited by happy citizens who actually have a steak in their own governments and futures are less likely to fall prey to the zealotry and brainwashing of terrorism.

    Ps to me a victory looks like the US standing united even when wars get messy, take long, Hollywood and Jane Fonda weigh in, and when the US MSM is promoting thier own lets defeat Bush instead of the terrorists, so we can install Hillary and her annointed one into power ..propaganda.


  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalNation View Post
    Not negotiate let them kill themselves off and protect yourself from them.
    Sounds good but that wasn't working on 9/11


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrskurtsprincess View Post
    You make it sound as if the only mission a solider has is to kill. You need to get a wider perspective on what soldiers do. Yes, they are trained to kill when NEEDED, however, their main mission is to provide a forum for freedom to flourish.
    Whose damn freedom?

    And who's standing in the way of it?

    If the Shiite population wants an Islamic government in Iraq, well, U.S. soldiers sure as FUCK aren't "provingd a forum" for their freedom. If the Sunnis want Saddam back, same thing. The Kurds, maybe? Some seem to be defining "freedom" or "democracy" for Iraq in a way that just doesn't make a lick of sense. They imagine this amorophous "Iraqi people" that just doesn't exist. "Iraq" isn't even a real nation... it was drawn up by the British and ropes in wildly differing ethnic and tribal groups usually at odds with each other. Saddam kept it together by terrorizing Kurds and Shiites, best I can tell.

    The truth is that the military mission was never to create a stable Iraq with a different leader. It was to create chaos for a nation that threatened Israel, and possibly set off a conflagration of the middle east that would see the U.S. destroying most of it so that Israel wouldn't have to launch one of its nukes... or could at least launch one with good reason, maybe at Iran.

    None of which has anything to do with America's interests.

    http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html
    America: White people footing the bill for a party they're not allowed to attend.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Lincoln View Post
    Whose damn freedom?

    And who's standing in the way of it?

    If the Shiite population wants an Islamic government in Iraq, well, U.S. soldiers sure as FUCK aren't "provingd a forum" for their freedom. If the Sunnis want Saddam back, same thing. The Kurds, maybe? Some seem to be defining "freedom" or "democracy" for Iraq in a way that just doesn't make a lick of sense. They imagine this amorophous "Iraqi people" that just doesn't exist. "Iraq" isn't even a real nation... it was drawn up by the British and ropes in wildly differing ethnic and tribal groups usually at odds with each other. Saddam kept it together by terrorizing Kurds and Shiites, best I can tell.

    The truth is that the military mission was never to create a stable Iraq with a different leader. It was to create chaos for a nation that threatened Israel, and possibly set off a conflagration of the middle east that would see the U.S. destroying most of it so that Israel wouldn't have to launch one of its nukes... or could at least launch one with good reason, maybe at Iran.

    None of which has anything to do with America's interests.

    http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

    My statement was about the primary function of the military which you tried to say was to KILL. I pointed out to you that soldiers are trained to kill when NEEDED as opposed to your theory that their primary function is to kill.

    Their primary function is to protect the interests of their country....both domestically and nationally, and at times this necessitates killing.

    And I can tell from your post that you must hate Israel.

    As for what our soldiers are doing in Iraq --- Shite, Kurd, Sunni and others should be given a chance to decide, by vote and not by dicatorship, what type of freedoms they want.

    American interests - do you really think we have no interests in the ME?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Lincoln View Post
    Whose damn freedom?

    And who's standing in the way of it?

    If the Shiite population wants an Islamic government in Iraq, well, U.S. soldiers sure as FUCK aren't "provingd a forum" for their freedom. If the Sunnis want Saddam back, same thing. The Kurds, maybe? Some seem to be defining "freedom" or "democracy" for Iraq in a way that just doesn't make a lick of sense. They imagine this amorophous "Iraqi people" that just doesn't exist. "Iraq" isn't even a real nation... it was drawn up by the British and ropes in wildly differing ethnic and tribal groups usually at odds with each other. Saddam kept it together by terrorizing Kurds and Shiites, best I can tell.

    The truth is that the military mission was never to create a stable Iraq with a different leader. It was to create chaos for a nation that threatened Israel, and possibly set off a conflagration of the middle east that would see the U.S. destroying most of it so that Israel wouldn't have to launch one of its nukes... or could at least launch one with good reason, maybe at Iran.

    None of which has anything to do with America's interests.

    http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html
    I'm damn intersted in sticking it to the crazy Islamists and damn intersested in protecting our oil supply until we can find a replacement

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrskurtsprincess View Post
    ...
    And I can tell from your post that you must hate Israel.
    ...

    IMO, that is the crux of it.
    After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown

    “Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
    -Abbey

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
    Sounds good but that wasn't working on 9/11
    We weren't doing it. The terrorists can't swim the oceans ya know. One good way to stop them would be not letting them in first place and stradegy wouldn't even involve starting a war with a country none of the 9-11 terrorists came from.
    Last edited by LiberalNation; 02-18-2007 at 06:46 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal Nation View Post
    We weren't doing it. The terrorists can't swim the ocean one good way to stop them would be not letting them in sand that doesn't involve starting a war with a country none of the 9-11 terrorists came from.
    Read post #20..
    Funny how those quotes just gets passed on by...

    I guess they don't fit into the lies that people are spreading so they can make President Bush look bad....
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
    Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)

  14. #29
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    Victory is the defeat of the democrats and the media.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

  15. #30
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    WTF I don't care about a bunch of quotes from dem politicians. Has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

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