Voter ID

[jimnyc]

You can pretend all you want that it is not a burden but others much more versed in these matters have already found it to be the facts.

Why is it the Rs want to spend a shit load of Tax dollars on a non exsistant problem?

It's already been proven to you that fraud issues do exist at the polls, you incompetent, illiterate idiot!

[MtnBiker]

Would somebody explain who exactly does not have an ID? Some of you guys freakout over the idea of and ID being used to vote, should and ID be required to apply for government assistance ie foodstamps, welfare, unemployment benefits?

An ID is a very usefull document, the idea that someone would procure an ID for the sole purpose of being able to vote is absurd.

How does a person sustain a legal income without an ID?

[82Marine89]

You're 0 for 2 now. The question began with "what good does it do" (to tell the government what you want if it's not even a democracy).

Tell you what: I'll give you a hint. Are you among the elite classes (i.e., families like the Kennedys and the Bushes)?

You are so full of crap. How many citizens of the United States affected change by bombarding their elected representatives with phone calls, faxes, and emails which effectively stopped amnesty in it's tracks? Maybe telling the government might not be good for Socialists like you that are dependent upon the government to provide for you, but for those of us that believe in a smaller, less dangerous, less intrusive government, it does a lot of good.

Now back to the EC. How is it antiquated and what should be done about it?

[retiredman]

Now back to the EC. How is it antiquated and what should be done about it?

what if you reduced the number of electors by 100 and took two away from each state? That way, a vote cast in the popular election from a small state would not have proportionately more impact on the process than a vote cast in a densely populated state.

[manu1959]

How do you stop from turning it into a poll tax?

an ID is required for reasons other than voting so there is no burden

[retiredman]

Would somebody explain who exactly does not have an ID? Some of you guys freakout over the idea of and ID being used to vote, should and ID be required to apply for government assistance ie foodstamps, welfare, unemployment benefits?

An ID is a very usefull document, the idea that someone would procure an ID for the sole purpose of being able to vote is absurd.

How does a person sustain a legal income without an ID?

My father did not have a photo ID for the last ten years of his life. He no longer drove and had no other need for a photo ID.

I know of at least one vietnam vet in my neighborhood who has been living with his folks since returning. He has never worked and has no photo ID.


The fact remains, if you require a photo ID as a requisite for voting, and it costs a citizen money to procure such an ID - and there is not other legal requirement that they have it - the cost of it is a de facto poll tax.

Make them free. Why is that so hard for republicans to spend the relatively minor amount of money it would take to fix an election system that THEY are whining about being broken?

[MtnBiker]

Make them free. Why is that so hard for republicans to spend the relatively minor amount of money it would take to fix an election system that THEY are whining about being broken?

I already agreed in post #97 that IDs could be provided at no charge.

[MtnBiker]

Nobody as cared to answer if people seeking government assistance should provide any sort of ID. Should they?

[retiredman]

Nothing is free. Actually I would agree, if a elderly person, low income person needed an ID at little or no cost thats fine.

and I take it one step further: if you are going to require it to vote, give it away to everyone....to do otherwise is a poll tax, and just because someone can afford it does not make it any less of a tax, IMHO.

[manu1959]

Nobody as cared to answer if people seeking government assistance should provide any sort of ID. Should they?

yep and drug tested.....

[retiredman]

Nobody as cared to answer if people seeking government assistance should provide any sort of ID. Should they?

I am fairly certain that they do, but I am not sure that the ID they provide must contain a photo.

Birth certificate, SSN card, DD214...for example.

[MtnBiker]

and I take it one step further: if you are going to require it to vote, give it away to everyone....to do otherwise is a poll tax, and just because someone can afford it does not make it any less of a tax, IMHO.

The only arguement would be for people who choose to have an ID soley for voting purposes.

[retiredman]

The only arguement would be for people who choose to have an ID soley for voting purposes.

I agree....I am not suggesting that driver's licenses be free.... and I have no problem with people being allowed to use THOSE for photo ID.... but for people who do not have another form of photo ID, the government should provide one free of charge, regardless of their economic circumstances.... or not require it for voting.

[Immanuel]

Maybe it's just me but you seem to make no sense with this post.

Good points in this post, Trigg and I do seem to be a bit contradicting in what I say. I agree. Let me attempt to explain.

1. your opposed to a national ID card

Yes, I am opposed to a National ID card. The whole thing scares the crap out of me. I can only think of one reason for establishing such a card and that is to control us. As JD pointed out the next step would be the number 666 and a chip on your forehead or on your right hand. They are already promoting this with medical chips they want to force on us. It won't be long.

I have lost confidence in the integrity of our government or actually, the integrity of the men and women that run our government. I do not want them having that much control over me. Now, I do admit that it is naive for me to think that they don't already have such control, but the National Id card to me is just more power to them in my humble opinion.

2. You think a picture ID should be required to vote

The vast majority of adult Americans already carry id's in the form of a driver's license, passport or a state issued id card for non-drivers. I personally cannot believe that any law abiding citizen would not have one. I believe that such an id should be required to cast a ballot.

I do realize that there are some poor people who cannot afford to get an id; therefore, I am agreeable to providing such id's for those who cannot attain one because as JD points out, requiring people to purchase id's before allowing them to vote can be considered a poll tax, not to mention, could be used to exclude certain voters by any number of methods of making it difficult to attain one i.e. the nearest place to get a "free" id is a thousand miles away from those who need it.

3. Your suspicious of anyone who refuses to carry ID

Yes, suspicious of any mentally competent adult American who refuses to carry an id. With today's society being as it is, I can think of no honest reason for a law-abiding, competent American not to possess id.

Ok, now it has been pointed out by johndoe that many states issue a drivers license to illegals and non-citizens. The only other picture ID I know of are passports (expensive at $50 a person) and one credit card (that I know of).

Well, then the laws allowing states to issue driver's licenses to illegals need to be changed or driver's licenses issued to such individuals need to identify the person as not being a citizen of the states on the card. That should not be that difficult.

So, if you are against a national ID card, but want a picture ID at the voting booth, what is your solution.

I think I answered this question above. If a state is going to issue driver's licenses to people who are not citizens of the United States then those driver's licenses need to clearly reflect that the holder is not an American Citizen and does not have voting privileges or other privileges associated with being a citizen. When a person does not have or want an id such as a drivers license or passport and cannot afford to get an id then an id should be provided to them. It need not be a "national id". My daughter is 22 and does not drive, but she has an state issued id card. It was required when we got her passport because they would not accept her "learning permit" as id for the passport... don't ask me why, but they wouldn't do it.

A picture ID would take care of the dead people voting problem IMO since the pic. wouldn't match the person voting. I'm sure the gov. can make them reasonably tamper proof as they have done with the many state drivers licenses.

True, but as I stated in answer to your point #1, I'm concerned with where the government is going with the National Id. We already have several forms of valid id (see an I-9 form for a list of these) and another form is simply unnecessary.

A National Id card may be used to track everything down to then number of bowel movements you have weekly. Why would I want George Bush knowing that?

Immie

[Immanuel]

Why is it the Rs want to spend a shit load of Tax dollars on a non exsistant problem?

You are a devout Democrat and you have the guts to ask this question?

Good to see you TM, you have been quiet lately.

As far as $5 dollars being prohibitive, stroll around a poor area sometime. You'll see a bunch of tattoos and cigs, both are a lot more than that small fee.

You forgot the point that so many of them have cell phones!

Immie