Who should pay for it?

[Yurt]

The national DNC decided early on, that no Dem primaries would be held before Feb. 5. Who was it who decided later, to hold Florida's Dem primary earlier than that?

If it was the Florida Democrat Party, then they should pay for a new primary.

If it was a the FL branch of the DNC, then they should pay.

Alternatively, the Democrat group who decided to hold the primary before the deadline, should apologize to the voters of Florida and explain why their votes will not count. See how well that flies.

No way should the original primary count. The candidates obeyed the rules and didn't campaign for it (except Hillary, but she said her stops in Florida before the primary were "fundraisers", not campaign appearances, uh huh). So Hillary stole a march on the others, who expected the votes not to count. If now the Democrats decide they will count after all, it will flagrantly and unfairly benefit Hillary. Which is probably just fine with her. But grossly unfair to the candidates who obeyed the rules. That's what they get for trusting Democrats.

it bears saying that i would say the same thing....

[JohnDoe]

I can't believe the work you make me go through just to shine a ray of reality into your liberally-dimmed existence......
http://www.flsenate.gov/session/inde...ber=House#Vote

co-sponsers in the House included the following Democrats
Porth; Kravitz; Kiar; Roberson; Brandenburg; Sands; Waldman; and Bucher
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sectio...entatives.aspx
two co-sponsers in the Senate including Ring, a Democrat...
http://www.flsenate.gov/Legislators/...TOKEN=86407954

none of which OUGHT to have been necessary since the Salon piece obviously wasn't an editorial....editorials don't quote people they interviewed.......

so, what are you going to believe....the official Florida documents showing they not only helped sponsor it, but voted for it unanimously..(the combined house/senate version passed 118-0)..or the after the fact disclaimer of the Florida democraps saying it was shoved down their throats?.......

Hahahahahahaha! Thank you pmp for all of your work! i'm sorry to put you through this....

But HERE is the truth, the reason that the vote was near unanimous was because the republicans stuck the measure that required Florida voting machines to have a paper audit on to the same bill in the 11th hour...

I posted you the links to such, I thought?

THAT'S your answer....

And yes, the minority leader did want to move the florida primary up and many Dems wanted to do such early on in the discussions....

BUT IT WAS the Republican leader of the House in Florida that then moved it up to MUCH EARLIER, and before the February 5th date....KNOWING that this would disenfranchise floridian votes, while telling these same people of the state that it would actually make their voices heard even louder...yahdeedah stuff....

Soooooo, my dear PMP...if you had done further reading and maybe understand the scummy manuverings with politics, you would realize that the person that wrote the salon editorial and other media articles, was just playing dumb, and repeating the Republican ...in this particular case, rhetoric and jargon... without even looking in to the details, you know, where the Devil lies or resides...

And I am not saying that the Democrats have not done the same thing with must pass type legislation...

I am just saying that this is what was done in Florida with the legislation for a paper trail on voting machines was added to the bill......and many Democrats that were for moving their primary up but NOT before the feb 5th date, were forced to vote yes.

jd

[JohnDoe]

Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
The national DNC decided early on, that no Dem primaries would be held before Feb. 5. Who was it who decided later, to hold Florida's Dem primary earlier than that?

If it was the Florida Democrat Party, then they should pay for a new primary.

If it was a the FL branch of the DNC, then they should pay.

Alternatively, the Democrat group who decided to hold the primary before the deadline, should apologize to the voters of Florida and explain why their votes will not count. See how well that flies.

No way should the original primary count. The candidates obeyed the rules and didn't campaign for it (except Hillary, but she said her stops in Florida before the primary were "fundraisers", not campaign appearances, uh huh). So Hillary stole a march on the others, who expected the votes not to count. If now the Democrats decide they will count after all, it will flagrantly and unfairly benefit Hillary. Which is probably just fine with her. But grossly unfair to the candidates who obeyed the rules. That's what they get for trusting Democrats.

It was the Florida Legislature that decided to ignore bothe the Democratic and Republican Party dates of no earlier than February 5th.

This Florida Legislature has a Republican leadership/Majority.

The Florida Legislature voted on legislation to have their primary earlier than the February date, knowing it would disenfranchise their voters but under the guise of it giving their voter's more say so....that was the jargon that was being said on the floor of the house and senate by some...

The Florida Democratic Party HAD NOTHING TO DO with this decision to move the Primary to before the February 5the date.
Both the Democratic party and the Republican party penalized florida by taking half or all of their delegates away.
The Candidates had NOTHING to do with moving this date up either...

Even I thought that they did, like you did, but after reading about it, this is simply not the case.

jd

[avatar4321]

It was the Florida Legislature that decided to ignore bothe the Democratic and Republican Party dates of no earlier than February 5th.

This Florida Legislature has a Republican leadership/Majority.

The Florida Legislature voted on legislation to have their primary earlier than the February date, knowing it would disenfranchise their voters but under the guise of it giving their voter's more say so....that was the jargon that was being said on the floor of the house and senate by some...

The Florida Democratic Party HAD NOTHING TO DO with this decision to move the Primary to before the February 5the date.
Both the Democratic party and the Republican party penalized florida by taking half or all of their delegates away.
The Candidates had NOTHING to do with moving this date up either...

Even I thought that they did, like you did, but after reading about it, this is simply not the case.

jd

Looks like Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[JohnDoe]

Looks like Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Yea! sure does look that way....

Especially when people on your side of the aisle continue to espouse the BS that the Florida Democratic party made the decision to move the date up, WHEN it is CLEARLY the Florida Legislature that CHOSE the earlier date, ignoring the rules in place....

And I am not saying the Florida Legislature does not have the authority to set the date whenever they wanted....just that the consequences of such was given to them and THEY CHOSE to ignore it.....and now they are whining like babies....WHICH IS BULLSHIT, because THEY are the ones that CHOSE to not follow the rules and guidelines of primaries that were set forth for ALL STATES by the Republican and Democratic Parties.

I personally do not believe we should have a new election in florida, they had their chance like all other states to vote....they had a RECORD TURNOUT from both sides of the aisle....these voters KNEW that their delegates would not go forth, but they came out to vote anyway, to show their support for their candidates...

Those votes should count. End of Story imo.

jd

[Immanuel]

Yea! sure does look that way....

Especially when people on your side of the aisle continue to espouse the BS that the Florida Democratic party made the decision to move the date up, WHEN it is CLEARLY the Florida Legislature that CHOSE the earlier date, ignoring the rules in place....

And I am not saying the Florida Legislature does not have the authority to set the date whenever they wanted....just that the consequences of such was given to them and THEY CHOSE to ignore it.....and now they are whining like babies....WHICH IS BULLSHIT, because THEY are the ones that CHOSE to not follow the rules and guidelines of primaries that were set forth for ALL STATES by the Republican and Democratic Parties.

I personally do not believe we should have a new election in florida, they had their chance like all other states to vote....they had a RECORD TURNOUT from both sides of the aisle....these voters KNEW that their delegates would not go forth, but they came out to vote anyway, to show their support for their candidates...

Those votes should count. End of Story imo.

jd

That is strange. I haven't heard anyone in Florida whining about it. Seems to me that it is Hillary that is whining not Florida's Democrats.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

That is strange. I haven't heard anyone in Florida whining about it. Seems to me that it is Hillary that is whining not Florida's Democrats.

Immie

Really? hmmmm....I guess that is why governor Chris has spent the last week hitting all the main stream media shows stating that the VOTES OF FLORIDAINS SHOULD COUNT.....that the dem party should pay for a new primary....

It's funny how they did not need to count when he signed the legislation to disenfranchise them....

he's whining, he's your governor....thought he represented the sentiments of his state? ahhhhhhh....ok....maybe he doesn't and he is just trying to manipulate the situation to where he now all of a sudden "looks good" even though he HAPPILY signed the legislation making their delgates not count in full?


jd

[Immanuel]

Really? hmmmm....I guess that is why governor Chris has spent the last week hitting all the main stream media shows stating that the VOTES OF FLORIDAINS SHOULD COUNT.....that the dem party should pay for a new primary....

It's funny how they did not need to count when he signed the legislation to disenfranchise them....

he's whining, he's your governor....thought he represented the sentiments of his state? ahhhhhhh....ok....maybe he doesn't and he is just trying to manipulate the situation to where he now all of a sudden "looks good" even though he HAPPILY signed the legislation making their delgates not count in full?


jd

Like I said, I have not seen or heard anyone from Florida screaming about it. The only one I have heard has been Hillary. But, then, I don't sit at home 24 hours a day watching liars on TV trying to tell us how much they care about the rest of us Americans either.

In fact, I haven't been watching TV at all except for late nights watching COPS or something on the Discovery Channel or NGC trying to fall asleep. TV sucks lately and the mainstream media has been the bottom of the barrel.

BTW: I found an excellent cure for insomnia... it is called The National Basketball Association.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Like I said, I have not seen or heard anyone from Florida screaming about it. The only one I have heard has been Hillary. But, then, I don't sit at home 24 hours a day watching liars on TV trying to tell us how much they care about the rest of us Americans either.

In fact, I haven't been watching TV at all except for late nights watching COPS or something on the Discovery Channel or NGC trying to fall asleep. TV sucks lately and the mainstream media has been the bottom of the barrel.

BTW: I found an excellent cure for insomnia... it is called The National Basketball Association.

Immie

hahahaha! Thanks for the tip on the NBA.... I sure needed them last night....could not fall asleeep if my life depended on it!

jd

[pegwinn]

The bottom line is that if the DNC chooses not to enforce the edict, they will really lose credibility. If they enforce the edict, they will lose supporters. Win/Win for Repubicans.

A do over should be paid for by the state. They are the ones who defied the party. The voters? They get no say in the matter one way or the other.

Of course if I was a florida republican, I would raise holy hell over the extra public tax money being spent.

[Abbey Marie]

...
BTW: I found an excellent cure for insomnia... it is called The National Basketball Association.

Immie

Ah, but NCAA's are coming up, and they are exciting (to me, anyway!)

[Gunny]

So, I just heard on the news more of the details involved with the Florida Primaries, some of which I had heard from Immanuel when he made mention to this on another thread.

The Florida Governor is now causing a tizzy fit and is saying that the Florida delegates should count and that he thinks there should be another primary and that the Democratic Party should pay for it.

Well, I have a beef with this now that I found out the details from this news clip...

It turns out that it was the State of Florida's Legislature that chose to run the Democratic Primary earlier than what the two parties in the primary had in their rules.

The Florida legislature is made up of a Republican Majority....and the Democratic party and most all Democratic members of the Legislature BEGGED the republicans NOT to move their primaries up and BEGGED them not to do this because the Democratic citizens would be disenfrancised.

The Republicaqns in the Florida legislature decided to do this to their Democratic citizens REGARDLESS.

IN this case, I personally believe that the state of Florida should pay for the new primaries or they should count the delegates from the record breaking primary vote turnout that they had already.....

jd

There is no option to choose two of the above.

IMO, either the original votes should count, or the Democrats should pay for a new primary.

Since when does a political party get to dictate to a state how and when they will hold their primary? Voting is not a privilege extended only by the Dem party.

[pegwinn]

Since when does a political party get to dictate to a state how and when they will hold their primary? Voting is not a privilege extended only by the Dem party.

They cannot lawfully dictate to the state because all elections are set by the state legislature. These dates are a matter of law.

The party is nothing more than a club with local, state, and national chapters. Every fourth year they hold a national club meeting (convention) to nominate which member of thier club they are going to run for President. They utilise the State legislated elections to get a rough count of how many votes there are.

The two events are separate.

Actual elections are a state matter. The state is not bound to accept party rules and the party is not bound to accept the dates the state sets.

The obvious solution (can't imagine why no one thought of it) is to have the Dem voters of Florida simultaneously mail a handwritten ballot to the DNC headquarters via the US Mail. Do this every day for a week and the HQ WILL BE SWAMPED. Total cost for the week is .41 x 7 days. Even the poor can afford it.

The HQ is unable to return the mail if no return address is on the envelope. They have to open the mail to be sure no one included a check or other legit party business. The State Dems can then tell the DNC that the mailings will continue until the delegates are seated. Cost? .41 x 7 x #weeks needed to overload Howards helpers per person.

Problem solved. If you are Florida Dems, you are free to do this. Just be sure my name isn't mentioned I don't want Howard screeching my name at his next speech.