Why Continue War in Afghanistan?

[mundame]

<FORM action=/cgi-bin/email.cgi method=post _extended="true">Defense Secretary Gates Says U.S. Intends to Boost Combat Forces in Afghanistan Next Year</FORM>
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</FORM><FORM action=/cgi-bin/email.cgi method=post _extended="true">Friday, April 04, 2008
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ABOARD A MILITARY AIRCRAFT — Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the U.S. intends to send many more combat forces to Afghanistan next year, regardless of whether troop levels in Iraq are reduced further.
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So why bother? Bin Laden is long gone, years gone, maybe in Pakistan but we don't go in there after him.

Why bother the Afghans? Our war has made no positive changes --- they have upped their opium poppy growing considerably, they burn all the girls' schools, women still have to wear burkas, the Taliban just lurks on bases right over the Pakistan border and strikes at the NATO forces.

Most of the NATO forces won't fight at all, and few have any appreciable numbers there ------ they expect us to do it all because they simply don't care about this fight. They don't believe in it. France and their useless 700 troops they promised to send yesterday ---- the French troops don't fight at all! They hang out in Kabul, that's it.

Seems to me if we ever get out of Iraq, this mess in Afghanistan is the next big thing to protest. It's pointless, it's losing, and it's all on us. Anyone agree?

[DragonStryk72]

I agree, but on different grounds: We are not the world's police. Yes, we need to pursue Bin Laden, he made an actual attack against us, and if that means into Pakistan we go, then spot on.

Personally, I think we should just send in SEAL teams and such, and let them go play against AQ. Aside from that, we need to start closing down our foreign Military bases, and bring our people home. Nationbuilding is a failure, and has been for some time now.

Let the world take care of their own countries, we wouldn't be having nearly the level of trouble we're having now if we would simply stop trying to 'fix' everything. countries rise and fall, this is the natural way of things.

[mundame]

I agree, but on different grounds: We are not the world's police. Yes, we need to pursue Bin Laden, he made an actual attack against us, and if that means into Pakistan we go, then spot on.

Personally, I think we should just send in SEAL teams and such, and let them go play against AQ. Aside from that, we need to start closing down our foreign Military bases, and bring our people home. Nationbuilding is a failure, and has been for some time now.

Let the world take care of their own countries, we wouldn't be having nearly the level of trouble we're having now if we would simply stop trying to 'fix' everything. countries rise and fall, this is the natural way of things.

Agreed, generally.

One of the biggest reasons I voted for Bush in 2000 was his "no nationbuilding." [Sigh] THAT's been a disappointment!

[Pale Rider]

I agree, but on different grounds: We are not the world's police. Yes, we need to pursue Bin Laden, he made an actual attack against us, and if that means into Pakistan we go, then spot on.

Personally, I think we should just send in SEAL teams and such, and let them go play against AQ. Aside from that, we need to start closing down our foreign Military bases, and bring our people home. Nationbuilding is a failure, and has been for some time now.

Let the world take care of their own countries, we wouldn't be having nearly the level of trouble we're having now if we would simply stop trying to 'fix' everything. countries rise and fall, this is the natural way of things.

ITA... but I don't know where the Defense Secretary thinks he's going to get any troops to send in Afganistan. Is he going to shit some troops. Practically everything we have is tied up in Iraq, and it's wearing out... people, equipment... so this is just what a I love to hear, we're going to start invading ANOTHER country when there's really no way we can do it.

I'll tell ya... we got some real winners running our shit right now...

[Gaffer]

We did nation building in Germany, we did it in Japan. We did it in S. Korea and Italy. While those countries don't always agree with us, they are not a direct threat to us.

Nation building is not something you do over night. It takes decades. The result is a friendly ally and trade partner. Eliminating threats to our security.

Afgan, like iraq is a place AQ and iran want to control. These countries would become bases of operations. Funded in the case of iraq by oil, in the case of Afgan by heroin. Places to train, equip and attack from.

In Afgan's case the only way you could control what goes on there is to outlaw islam. The government there would have to do that. Things have improved there. Inspite of the media's lack of reporting on it. Women are not repressed and executed as they were. Attacks on people are being carried out by taliban not average mo's on the street. And nothing is going to be secure there until we go into pakistan and clear out all the taliban and AQ bases. There is also the iranians who are supplying the taliban with weapons and money. Caravans have been captured with the evidence.

Afgan is a prime example of what NATO has become. As useless as the un. The nato countries supply the minimum expected of them and nothing more. The US has to send more troops there because the nato countries won't.

There are operations going on in somolia and other parts of north africa. Also the Philippines. Clandestine ops are going on world wide. You would be flabbergasted to see the extent of the actual war. You think SEAL teams are not operating in pakistan?

Pulling out of any place is just giving up. We are at war. Even though it doesn't seem like it to most people sitting comfortably in their homes and going about their business unmolested. But that is the case. Those bases in other countries and troops in combat zones are what allow you to go about your business. They are what allows you to get on here and spout about how the bases should be closed and the troops brought home.

The war is a big picture puzzle, the size of a ping pong table. And you have one piece. Can you really determine what the picture looks like from that piece?

[Pale Rider]

The US has to send more troops there because the nato countries won't.

And where is the US going to GET more troops? Star Ship Enterprises replicator? How about a draft? Because right now... THERE ARE NO MORE TROOPS! There is no more equipment. 95% of it is in Iraq, and it's all wearing out. Have you seen the equipment grave yards lately? They're growing FAR more rapidly than any of the equipment is being replaced. Most heavy fighting equipment is refurbished and replaced in times of peace. Well... forget that as long as we have a war monger in the White House. We will be all but in capable of waging a war ANYWHERE if we keep up the present pace in another then years.

There are operations going on in somolia and other parts of north africa. Also the Philippines. Clandestine ops are going on world wide. You would be flabbergasted to see the extent of the actual war. You think SEAL teams are not operating in pakistan?

Not like you think.

Pulling out of any place is just giving up. We are at war. Even though it doesn't seem like it to most people sitting comfortably in their homes and going about their business unmolested. But that is the case. Those bases in other countries and troops in combat zones are what allow you to go about your business. They are what allows you to get on here and spout about how the bases should be closed and the troops brought home.

The war is a big picture puzzle, the size of a ping pong table. And you have one piece. Can you really determine what the picture looks like from that piece?

This "war" will be the end of America. We - can't - afford - it.

[bullypulpit]

<FORM action=/cgi-bin/email.cgi method=post _extended="true">Defense Secretary Gates Says U.S. Intends to Boost Combat Forces in Afghanistan Next Year</FORM>
<FORM action=/cgi-bin/email.cgi method=post _extended="true">

</FORM><FORM action=/cgi-bin/email.cgi method=post _extended="true">Friday, April 04, 2008
</FORM>

ABOARD A MILITARY AIRCRAFT — Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the U.S. intends to send many more combat forces to Afghanistan next year, regardless of whether troop levels in Iraq are reduced further.
************************************************** *

So why bother? Bin Laden is long gone, years gone, maybe in Pakistan but we don't go in there after him.

Why bother the Afghans? Our war has made no positive changes --- they have upped their opium poppy growing considerably, they burn all the girls' schools, women still have to wear burkas, the Taliban just lurks on bases right over the Pakistan border and strikes at the NATO forces.

Most of the NATO forces won't fight at all, and few have any appreciable numbers there ------ they expect us to do it all because they simply don't care about this fight. They don't believe in it. France and their useless 700 troops they promised to send yesterday ---- the French troops don't fight at all! They hang out in Kabul, that's it.

Seems to me if we ever get out of Iraq, this mess in Afghanistan is the next big thing to protest. It's pointless, it's losing, and it's all on us. Anyone agree?

Why continue with a military presence in Afghanistan? Simple. In his desire to work off his chubby for Saddam, Bush left the job in Afghanistan unfinished. As result the Taliban and Al Qaeda have regrouped, rearmed and rebuilt to a point that they are nearly at, or above, their pre 9/11 levels. Thank you, President Bush.

[Gaffer]

And where is the US going to GET more troops? Star Ship Enterprises replicator? How about a draft? Because right now... THERE ARE NO MORE TROOPS! There is no more equipment. 95% of it is in Iraq, and it's all wearing out. Have you seen the equipment grave yards lately? They're growing FAR more rapidly than any of the equipment is being replaced. Most heavy fighting equipment is refurbished and replaced in times of peace. Well... forget that as long as we have a war monger in the White House. We will be all but in capable of waging a war ANYWHERE if we keep up the present pace in another then years.


Not like you think.


This "war" will be the end of America. We - can't - afford - it.

95% of our equipment is NOT in iraq. About 10% is there. The equipment is over hauled and repaired as needed in theater. Equipment is placed in the "graveyards" to preserve it for future use. That's why those graveyards are located in dry climates so it doesn't erode. Old equipment that is decommissioned is placed there because something better has replaced it.

As I said in other posts, this is a war with islam, it's going to go on for a long time. Until islam or the west is eliminated. Over the years there will be heavy fighting in certain areas and periods of relative peace. Get use to it. It's going to be a long war. Made longer by the pc attitude that runs this country and the whiny, we need to pull out now people.

This war very well could be the end of America. Because we are low on real fighting spirit and the sense to do what is right. The government is full of wimpy politicians who are only interested in their own personal power and party affiliations.

As I said before, iraq is a front in a much larger war. It's a propaganda tool for the media and politicians. If we weren't in iraq afgan would be the target of the left and their media goons.

[mundame]

If we weren't in iraq afgan would be the target of the left and their media goons.

That's what I said. From a different perspective.

When we finally drag ourselves out of Iraq, the protests and anger will switch immediately to Afghanistan, in my opinion. (And yours, Gaffer.)

And why? Because Afghanistan has been botched by Bush just as badly as Iraq was. He failed to bother to catch bin Laden, who has had a healthy video career all these years since, inspiring bombings all over the world. He fails to bother to take down the Taliban camps inside Pakistan, so they simply strike repeatedly at any forces fighting on our side in Afghanistan.

This does not include forces from most NATO nations, who mostly just sit in Kabul and drink, because no one in Europe believes in all this nonsense going on there, and I don't either.

It would be worthwhile to blast the Taliban camps and find and obliterate bin Laden and his lot. But hanging around Afghanistan not doing much of anything for years? No, I don't believe in that, either. The whole situation is pointless, as far as I can see.

The only reason the American people have tolerated it this long is that not as many Americans are being killed as they are in Iraq.

[Dilloduck]

That's what I said. From a different perspective.

When we finally drag ourselves out of Iraq, the protests and anger will switch immediately to Afghanistan, in my opinion. (And yours, Gaffer.)

And why? Because Afghanistan has been botched by Bush just as badly as Iraq was. He failed to bother to catch bin Laden, who has had a healthy video career all these years since, inspiring bombings all over the world. He fails to bother to take down the Taliban camps inside Pakistan, so they simply strike repeatedly at any forces fighting on our side in Afghanistan.

This does not include forces from most NATO nations, who mostly just sit in Kabul and drink, because no one in Europe believes in all this nonsense going on there, and I don't either.

It would be worthwhile to blast the Taliban camps and find and obliterate bin Laden and his lot. But hanging around Afghanistan not doing much of anything for years? No, I don't believe in that, either. The whole situation is pointless, as far as I can see.

The only reason the American people have tolerated it this long is that not as many Americans are being killed as they are in Iraq.

If something is "botched" why do we need to give up trying? If I gave up on every job I did because I botched it, I would never accomplish a thing. Are you really tryin to say that we should never involve ourselves in anything outside of our borders ?

[mundame]

If something is "botched" why do we need to give up trying? If I gave up on every job I did because I botched it, I would never accomplish a thing. Are you really tryin to say that we should never involve ourselves in anything outside of our borders ?

I think we should win a war if we start it at all.

Going in on the cheap and hoping it will be quick and easy and then when it isn't persevering for years more with a steadily deteriorating military ------


Nope, I'd say pull out, rethink it all, repair the military in case, God forbid, we actually NEED it some day!!

I am becoming worried at the severely broken quality of our military, for one thing. How they have to take really dumb people with prison records, lower standards every year, because more able men won't sign up.

I remember the last time the U.S. military was viewed with contempt by most of the nation -- after Vietnam -- and we were pretty much inactivated for three decades. This isn't working out. We've destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan enough for a good lesson in the inadvisability of bombing New York, I'd say --- and there IS value to that lesson. Let's pull out and regroup, try to figure out how to wage war without losing all the time so we can do it right if we have to.

[theHawk]

I wouldn't have a problem with a full withdraw from Afghanistan and Iraq, but only if we nuke'em from pillar to post to ensure they cannot regroup and attack in the near future.

[Gaffer]

I think we should win a war if we start it at all.

Going in on the cheap and hoping it will be quick and easy and then when it isn't persevering for years more with a steadily deteriorating military ------


Nope, I'd say pull out, rethink it all, repair the military in case, God forbid, we actually NEED it some day!!

I am becoming worried at the severely broken quality of our military, for one thing. How they have to take really dumb people with prison records, lower standards every year, because more able men won't sign up.

I remember the last time the U.S. military was viewed with contempt by most of the nation -- after Vietnam -- and we were pretty much inactivated for three decades. This isn't working out. We've destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan enough for a good lesson in the inadvisability of bombing New York, I'd say --- and there IS value to that lesson. Let's pull out and regroup, try to figure out how to wage war without losing all the time so we can do it right if we have to.

You would have been a great aid for Gen George McClellan during the civil war.

The standards of the military are not lower. They do not take dumb people, You do have to pass their tests to get in. And a prison record will keep you out of the military period.

If you think we have done enough and need to pull out now your a fool. The islamists are not going to stop just because we went and took out a few bases and supporting countries. They are pulling back and regrouping. And as soon as we relax they will strike again. They are not logical and they do not think in terms of having a better life and a future for their children. They do not think as you do. Their sole goal is the conquest of the west by islam and to die in the process.

The war needs to be waged in full against islam, period. Until it is the war will drag on for decades.

You don't fall back and regroup after a victory, you press ahead and continue pursuing your enemy until he is annihilated.

[Dilloduck]

I think we should win a war if we start it at all.

Going in on the cheap and hoping it will be quick and easy and then when it isn't persevering for years more with a steadily deteriorating military ------


Nope, I'd say pull out, rethink it all, repair the military in case, God forbid, we actually NEED it some day!!

There is absolutely no reason that our tactics and military cannot be improved right now and where they are. Maybe you have a different agenda ?

[mundame]

You would have been a great aid for Gen George McClellan during the civil war.

I hope so; God knows he needed aid. Needed some better aides, too.

The standards of the military are not lower. They do not take dumb people, You do have to pass their tests to get in. And a prison record will keep you out of the military period.

Gracious, of course they have lowered their standards! That's been going on since 2006. The current issue of Time has a story on the broken Army: "As the nation's armed forces slog through a seventh year of war, with soldiers and Marines churning through repeated combat tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, re-enlistment bonuses and lower recruitment standards can only do so much to maintain force levels."

The islamists are not going to stop just because we went and took out a few bases and supporting countries. They are pulling back and regrouping. And as soon as we relax they will strike again. They are not logical and they do not think in terms of having a better life and a future for their children. They do not think as you do. Their sole goal is the conquest of the west by islam and to die in the process.

Could be. I'm inclined to agree they'd LIKE to be that way -- they certainly get in large crowds and chant "Death to America" enough. Whether they are able enough, doesn't seem to be the case since there have been no more attacks on us since 9/11. For that reason, no more attacks in six years, I'm not sure there still is a war on -- it IS a sort of long time between battles in a war, even McClellan would have been ashamed, I hope, though Lincoln might have thought his problem general was capable of hiding out that long.

The war needs to be waged in full against islam, period. Until it is the war will drag on for decades.

Do we need, like, some sort of signal they are still THERE? The enemy? Or are we taking this on faith?

You don't fall back and regroup after a victory, you press ahead and continue pursuing your enemy until he is annihilated.

Who? Who does this? Not George Bush, that's real clear. He didn't bother to catch bin Laden, let him flee, didn't go after him, still isn't going after him, lets the Taliban camps stay right over the border striking our troops whenever they want and then running back across the border ---- I don't know, doesn't sound like "annihilation" is much going on.

[sarcasm]Well, except for the mothers and children in Iraq cities that never had anything to do with anything about 9/11. Guess we're showing them, huh?! Bomb another apartment building where bin Laden is 4,000 miles away from! That'll annihilate that enemy!![/sarcasm]