Energy Independent

[glockmail]

OK a radiator/ cooling fan then, to keep some heat/power loss at bay.

I'm not so concerned with physics of drag or friction at this point but more about this being a workable operating system.

I need to make a diagram...then again you guys would steal it!

On the bold part..is there such a thing on internal combustion engines?

You don't seem to be getting it Mr. P. You are describing a perpetual motion machine. Even if you had 100% efficiency on all the components, it still would not work because of the laws of physics.

Radiators and fans are simply mechanisms that disipate the heat away from the components. They don't make anything more efficient; they just keep it from overheating and breaking down.

An internal combustion engine is simply a device that converts chemical energy (like gas or diesel) into mechanical energy. At best they are about 35% efficient.

[Mr. P]

You don't seem to be getting it Mr. P. You are describing a perpetual motion machine. Even if you had 100% efficiency on all the components, it still would not work because of the laws of physics.

Radiators and fans are simply mechanisms that disipate the heat away from the components. They don't make anything more efficient; they just keep it from overheating and breaking down.

An internal combustion engine is simply a device that converts chemical energy (like gas or diesel) into mechanical energy. At best they are about 35% efficient.

I guess I don't get it..I just don't understand, why, if you have an electric motor turning a generator that will in turn power the motor...etc...wouldn't work.

Of course it will fail but so do all engines/motors.

I really am trying to understand why this won't work.

[glockmail]

I guess I don't get it..I just don't understand, why, if you have an electric motor turning a generator that will in turn power the motor...etc...wouldn't work.

Of course it will fail but so do all engines/motors.

I really am trying to understand why this won't work.

Read this again:

Forget about what powers the vehicle for a moment and just look at the vehicle itself, rolling along at a constant speed on a flat smooth road. You have the external forces of air and rolling resistance that want to slow it down, and those have to be overcome by some external energy source to keep the vehicle moving. That’s a simple law of physics that cannot be broken.

I’ll try to say it a different way:

Energy, like matter, cannot be created or destroyed. It just changes form. I’m ignoring nuclear physics, of course. And every change can never be more than 100% efficient, because if it was, energy would have to be created, breaking a fundamental physical law.

[Mr. P]

Read this again:


I’ll try to say it a different way:

Energy, like matter, cannot be created or destroyed. It just changes form. I’m ignoring nuclear physics, of course. And every change can never be more than 100% efficient, because if it was, energy would have to be created, breaking a fundamental physical law.

Ok glock, are you saying if a model of my contraption was built it wouldn't run? yes?

Motor started with bat...turning a gen..then pull a relay that disconnects the bat and the gen runs the motor because the motor runs the gen. That won't work? I really don't understand why.

[Missileman]

Ok glock, are you saying if a model of my contraption was built it wouldn't run? yes?

Motor started with bat...turning a gen..then pull a relay that disconnects the bat and the gen runs the motor because the motor runs the gen. That won't work? I really don't understand why.

It would run, but not for very long. It would not be self-sustaining.

[Psychoblues]

P has a very shallow understanding of the concept but is bound and determined to insist to all of us that it will work. Much like most of his work here, it is unsustainable.

[Mr. P]

P has a very shallow understanding of the concept but is bound and determined to insist to all of us that it will work. Much like most of his work here, it is unsustainable.

Perhaps you have a formula to prove yer drivel.

[Mr. P]

It would run, but not for very long. It would not be self-sustaining.

It would run is all I'm aiming for. Working out the self sustaining part is another issue. I think that's workable too. If it will run it must be sustainable. An internal combustion engine will run until the fuel runs out, or it will run until it breaks if kept fueled. It would be difficult for a combustion engine to produce it's own fuel, but all an elect motor needs is to turn a generator producing electric, it's fuel.

[Psychoblues]

I do not have and have never been inclined towards anything even similar to your theory, P, even though I have spent much of my life in the electrical and otherwise power generating field.

Perhaps you have a formula to prove yer drivel.

Have you something substantial to back up your claims or is it just as you describe my ramblings, drivel?

[Mr. P]

I do not have and have never been inclined towards anything even similar to your theory, P, even though I have spent much of my life in the electrical and otherwise power generating field.




Have you something substantial to back up your claims or is it just as you describe my ramblings, drivel?

Fool, read the thread...got something to contribute..feel free.

[manu1959]

I guess I don't get it..I just don't understand, why, if you have an electric motor turning a generator that will in turn power the motor...etc...wouldn't work.

Of course it will fail but so do all engines/motors.

I really am trying to understand why this won't work.

go buy an electric motor and a generator....wire em up and find out why....you will also need a starter.....

[Mr. P]

go buy an electric motor and a generator....wire em up and find out why....you will also need a starter.....

No starter just a battery or so...I am planning to construct this model.

[Psychoblues]

OK, a motor, a generator and a battery. That's your thesis, p.

No starter just a battery or so...I am planning to construct this model.

Or is it even less comprehensive than that simple observation?

[glockmail]

No starter just a battery or so...I am planning to construct this model.

Go for it Mr. P. You can buy the stuff at a hobby shop for about 20 buck-olas. The smaller the motor and generator, the less bearing friction, so when it doesn't work you'll know that a scaled up version won't work either. Plus working with 2 D cells won't get you electrocuted like a car battery could do.

I suggest using a manual switch to turn the battery on-off though to keep it simple. That way you won't be wasting too much time. As soon as you turn the switch to "off" the thing will stop instantly, guaranteed.