Israel Preparing to Strike Iran Without U.S. Consent

[namvet]

Israel is drawing up plans to attack Iran's nuclear facilities and is prepared to launch a strike without backing from the U.S., an Israeli newspaper reported Thursday.

Officials in the Israeli Defense Ministry told The Jerusalem Post that while they prefer to act in consultation with the U.S., they are preparing plans that would allow them to act alone.

its now obvious they have NO confidence in Osama at all !!!! flatten Iran

source

[Binky]

Who died and made America the bully on the block? I think we'd be better suited to mind our own business for a change, since we have enough problems of our own to deal with. We cannot continue to live as though we are the King Turd on the planet. Sometimes it's wise to take a back seat.

[hjmick]

Nothing says Israel needs U.S. consent for anything.

[namvet]

I agree. and they know if they notify us, the date and time of the attack will wind up front page on the NY times/post. there is NO national security in this country anymore. its a fuckin' joke. I just hope they hit on jan 20 or later.

[DragonStryk72]

"Um, yes sir, we'd uh, like to go to war against Iran"
"Why on Earth would you do that?"
"Well, you see, sir, they kind of want to wipe us from the face of the earth."
"What makes you say that?"
"Oh, well, you know, just them saying as such, and building nukes they'd like to send our way."
"Well, I don't know about all that, we'll have to think on whether or not you're allowed to do that. We'll get back to you, okay?"

Sorry, gallows humor, I know, but I figure that it was necessary to point the sheer stupidity of one country going to another for permission to go to war.

[Little-Acorn]

It's not so much U.S. consent they need, as U.S. backing.

Iran has had enough time to rebuild their armies after getting pasted in the Iran/Iraq war, that they probably have some pretty hefty ground forces by now (guessing). If Israel gets involved in a long war of attrition with Iran, they'll eventually lose.

IF, that is, Iran can get their armies to Israel. The only land route is through Iraq or Turkey. Turkey's probably not too interested in helping them invade a neighbor. But if our President-elect pulls our troops out of Iraq before the country is ready to resist Iran on their own, it won't be long before a nice, wide highway through Syria is open for business, as it once was.

Israel isn't trying to destroy Iran (they can't, for one thing). Most of the Iranian people could give two hoots about Israel, they have enough problems of their own and just want to live in peace. It's the crazy government (or governments, they don't really have a unified government in Iran, just a bunch of mullahs jostling for power) that's causing all the trouble.

Israel probably hopes for a fairly quick knockout strike to take out Iran's nuclear and/or missile facilities. Maybe aircraft with bunker-busting bombs (the US just sold them a bunch), followed by mop-up troops landing by helicopter or aircraft at the strike sites, possibly a semi-suicidal mission. But if the alternative is nuclear annihilation, they'll go.

It would be helpful if Israel could buy more ammo from the U.S., and VERY helpful if they could land at airfields in Iraq. The U.S. has built a number of them, huge things larger than most international airports with hardened concrete runways that can take any aircraft in the world (they are NOT for "temporary usage until we leave", do the math). And several of them are conveniently situated along the Iran/Iraq border... again, not by accident.

Once Obama becomes Prez, those things become a lot less likely. If Israel wants to avoid becoming Iran's nuclear-weapons test ground, they'd better do their thing SOON. They have what, five weeks? They'd be foolish not to... and the Israelis are not fools. Most of them, anyway.

Merry Christmas.

[manu1959]

It's not so much U.S. consent they need, as U.S. backing.

Iran has had enough time to rebuild their armies after getting pasted in the Iran/Iraq war, that they probably have some pretty hefty ground forces by now (guessing). If Israel gets involved in a long war of attrition with Iran, they'll eventually lose.

IF, that is, Iran can get their armies to Israel. The only land route is through Iraq or Turkey. Turkey's probably not too interested in helping them invade a neighbor. But if our President-elect pulls our troops out of Iraq before the country is ready to resist Iran on their own, it won't be long before a nice, wide highway through Syria is open for business, as it once was.

Israel isn't trying to destroy Iran (they can't, for one thing). Most of the Iranian people could give two hoots about Israel, they have enough problems of their own and just want to live in peace. It's the crazy government (or governments, they don't really have a unified government in Iran, just a bunch of mullahs jostling for power) that's causing all the trouble.

Israel probably hopes for a fairly quick knockout strike to take out Iran's nuclear and/or missile facilities. Maybe aircraft with bunker-busting bombs (the US just sold them a bunch), followed by mop-up troops landing by helicopter or aircraft at the strike sites, possibly a semi-suicidal mission. But if the alternative is nuclear annihilation, they'll go.

It would be helpful if Israel could buy more ammo from the U.S., and VERY helpful if they could land at airfields in Iraq. The U.S. has built a number of them, huge things larger than most international airports with hardened concrete runways that can take any aircraft in the world (they are NOT for "temporary usage until we leave", do the math). And several of them are conveniently situated along the Iran/Iraq border... again, not by accident.

Once Obama becomes Prez, those things become a lot less likely. If Israel wants to avoid becoming Iran's nuclear-weapons test ground, they'd better do their thing SOON. They have what, five weeks? They'd be foolish not to... and the Israelis are not fools. Most of them, anyway.

Merry Christmas.

The only land route is through Iraq or Turkey.

which is exactly why the us will have troops there for quite some time......

[Little-Acorn]

The only land route is through Iraq or Turkey.

which is exactly why the us will have troops there for quite some time......

You might want to call our President-elect and inform him of this.

I get the feeling he has other ideas.

[namvet]

It's not so much U.S. consent they need, as U.S. backing.

Iran has had enough time to rebuild their armies after getting pasted in the Iran/Iraq war, that they probably have some pretty hefty ground forces by now (guessing). If Israel gets involved in a long war of attrition with Iran, they'll eventually lose.

IF, that is, Iran can get their armies to Israel. The only land route is through Iraq or Turkey. Turkey's probably not too interested in helping them invade a neighbor. But if our President-elect pull our troops out of Iraq before the country is ready to resist Iran on their own, it won't be long before a nice, wide highway through Syria is open for business, as it once was.

Israel isn't trying to destroy Iran (they can't, for one thing). Most of the Iranian people could give two hoots about Israel, they have enough problems of their own and just want to live in peace. It's the crazy government (or governments, they don't really have a unified government in Iran, just a bunch of mullahs jostling for power) that's causing all the trouble.

Israel probably hopes for a fairly quick knockout strike to take out Iran's nuclear and/or missile facilities. Maybe aircraft with bunker-busting bombs (the US just sold them a bunch), followed by mop-up troops landing by helicopter or aircraft at the strike sites, possibly a semi-suicidal mission. But if the alternative is nuclear annihilation, they'll go.

It would be helpful if Israel could buy more ammo from the U.S., and VERY helpful if they could land at airfields in Iraq. The U.S. has built a number of them, huge things larger than most international airports with hardened concrete runways that can take any aircraft in the world (they are NOT for "temporary usage until we leave", do the math). And several of them are conveniently situated along the Iran/Iraq border... again, not by accident.

Once Obama becomes Prez, those things become a lot less likely. If Israel wants to avoid becoming Iran's nuclear-weapons test ground, they'd better do their thing SOON. They have what, five weeks? They'd be foolish not to... and the Israelis are not fools. Most of them, anyway.

Merry Christmas.

they don't need any airfields in Iraq. and what make you think their going to let a ground Army march from Iran to Israel??? that would be a turkey shoot !!!! last I heard the Iranian Army was the smallest in the world. no way they risk this. Israel will come like a thief in the night. and no I don't see Israel boots on the ground in Iran. its gonna be an air strike. Osama will have nothing to say here at all.

[namvet]

You might want to call our President-elect and inform him of this.

I get the feeling he has other ideas.

like hide under the desk????

[Little-Acorn]

they don't need any airfields in Iraq.

Last time I checked, Israel didn't have any planes that could lift the required load, fly all the way to Iran, drop the bombs, and fly all the way back without refueling. Just bombing the (above-ground) Iraq reactor some years back, they had to strip their planes right down to the bone, and Iran is twice as far. If they haven't gotten any LONG range planes since then, then they definitely need either a refueling capability (and friendly territory to refuel over), or airfields between Israel and Iran. Look at a map.

and what make you think their going to let a ground Army march from Iran to Israel??? that would be a turkey shoot !!!!

The "turkey shoot" would take place in the sovereign territory of nations that (by then) wouldn't like Israel too much, and who hadn't (yet) committed any aggressive acts agains Israel. They wouldn't be too interested in Israel's reasons for attacking the oncoming "peaceful" army. Instead, they would seize the excuse to put together a Middle East coalition and maybe, just maybe, finally polish off Israel as they have failed to do four times in the past. This is not an outcome Israel wants, so they might not do what you say.

last I heard the Iranian Army was the smallest in the world.

Link?

I don't see Israel boots on the ground in Iran. its gonna be an air strike.

Iran's nuclear facilities are deep underground in hardened bunkers, unlike Iraq's reactor was. And they are dispersed, scattered among several cities and through large areas in each city. Even with bunker busters (the ones the US sold Israel are fairly small), Israel can't be sure all facilities were hit hard enough to all be destroyed. Troops MUST go in to administer the coup de grace, or the mission will be wasted.

Osama will have nothing to say here at all.

Especially if he hasn't taken office by the time Israel launches.

[namvet]

how big (or small) is the iranian military???? as of Wed Jul 2, 2008

ARMED FORCES:

Iran has 545,000 personnel in active service. Major General Ataollah Salehi is the armed forces chief.



* ARMY: The army comprises 350,000 men, including 220,000 conscripts. The Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, viewed as the most loyal guardian of the ruling system, has another 125,000 men. In 2004 the army was organised in four corps, with four armoured divisions and six infantry divisions.

-- There are nearly 1,700 tanks including some 100 Zulfiqar locally produced main battle tanks. A large number of Iran's tanks are elderly British-made Chieftains and U.S.-made M-60s.

-- Soviet-made T-54 and T-55s, T-59s, T-62s, and T-72s were also part of the inventory, all captured from the Iraqis or acquired from North Korea and China.

-- The latest Military Balance report from the International Institute for Strategic Studies says that some of the tanks' serviceability may be in doubt.

-- There are around 640 armoured personnel carriers. There are 8,196 artillery pieces of which 2,010 are towed, and over 310 are self-propelled.



* MISSILES:

-- In a 2007 parade to mark the anniversary of 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, Iran showed its Shahab-3 missile, saying it could travel 2,000 km (1,250 miles) -- enabling it to hit Israel and U.S. bases in the region. Another missile at the parade, the Ghadr-1, can reach targets 1,800 km (1,125 miles) away. It was believed to be the first time it has been shown publicly.



* NAVY: There are 18,000 naval personnel. The navy has its headquarters at Bandar-e Abbas. Iran's navy has three Russian Kilo class submarines, three frigates and two corvettes.

-- As of 2001 the regular Iranian navy was in a state of overall obsolescence, and in poor shape because they had not been equipped with modern ships and weapons. The readiness of the three frigates is doubtful, and the two nearly 40-year-old corvettes do not have sophisticated weapons.

-- In late 2007 Iran launched a new locally made submarine and a navy frigate named as Jamaran. Jane's Defence Weekly reported last November that Iran was also building missile-launching frigates copied from 275-tonne Kaman fast attack missile craft originally purchased from France in the late 1970s.

* AIR FORCE:

-- The air force has 52,000 personnel and 281 combat aircraft. However, serviceability may be as low as around 60 percent for U.S. aircraft types and 80 percent for Russian aircraft. There are F-14 and MiG 29 aircraft. There are also some aircraft impounded from Iraq -- Russian-built Sukhoi Su-24s and 25s. Iran also has transport aircraft and helicopters.

-- In September 2007, Iran said it had tested two new domestically-produced jet fighters. State television said the Saegheh was a new generation of the Azarakhsh (Lightning) fighter. Iran said it was being built on an industrial scale. Sources: Reuters/Military Balance 2008/www.globalsecurity.org/Jane's Defence Weekly

220,000 conscripts. count them out. when the bullets fly their gone. this entire Military can be destroyed in a matter of days !!!!
source

[avatar4321]

If they have to do it then they have to do it. They dont need my permission to defend themselves and take out threats. Ill support them 100%

[namvet]

Last time I checked, Israel didn't have any planes that could lift the required load, fly all the way to Iran, drop the bombs, and fly all the way back without refueling. Just bombing the (above-ground) Iraq reactor some years back, they had to strip their planes right down to the bone, and Iran is twice as far. If they haven't gotten any LONG range planes since then, then they definitely need either a refueling capability (and friendly territory to refuel over), or airfields between Israel and Iran. Look at a map.


The "turkey shoot" would take place in the sovereign territory of nations that (by then) wouldn't like Israel too much, and who hadn't (yet) committed any aggressive acts agains Israel. They wouldn't be too interested in Israel's reasons for attacking the oncoming "peaceful" army. Instead, they would seize the excuse to put together a Middle East coalition and maybe, just maybe, finally polish off Israel as they have failed to do four times in the past. This is not an outcome Israel wants, so they might not do what you say.


Link?


Iran's nuclear facilities are deep underground in hardened bunkers, unlike Iraq's reactor was. And they are dispersed, scattered among several cities and through large areas in each city. Even with bunker busters (the ones the US sold Israel are fairly small), Israel can't be sure all facilities were hit hard enough to all be destroyed. Troops MUST go in to administer the coup de grace, or the mission will be wasted.


Especially if he hasn't taken office by the time Israel launches.

what load???? ever hear of mid air refueling ??? their not taking the entire military with them. they can fly over the med. all the way. they have the exact same capabilites here we do. ever hear of bunker bustin' bombs???? that's what they'll use. ive posted Iranian military size. nothin' but pukes. its a defensive military only !!!!

[AFbombloader]

Last time I checked, Israel didn't have any planes that could lift the required load, fly all the way to Iran, drop the bombs, and fly all the way back without refueling. Just bombing the (above-ground) Iraq reactor some years back, they had to strip their planes right down to the bone, and Iran is twice as far. If they haven't gotten any LONG range planes since then, then they definitely need either a refueling capability (and friendly territory to refuel over), or airfields between Israel and Iran. Look at a map.


The "turkey shoot" would take place in the sovereign territory of nations that (by then) wouldn't like Israel too much, and who hadn't (yet) committed any aggressive acts agains Israel. They wouldn't be too interested in Israel's reasons for attacking the oncoming "peaceful" army. Instead, they would seize the excuse to put together a Middle East coalition and maybe, just maybe, finally polish off Israel as they have failed to do four times in the past. This is not an outcome Israel wants, so they might not do what you say.


Link?


Iran's nuclear facilities are deep underground in hardened bunkers, unlike Iraq's reactor was. And they are dispersed, scattered among several cities and through large areas in each city. Even with bunker busters (the ones the US sold Israel are fairly small), Israel can't be sure all facilities were hit hard enough to all be destroyed. Troops MUST go in to administer the coup de grace, or the mission will be wasted.


Especially if he hasn't taken office by the time Israel launches.

The IAF has over 100 F-16 C/D aircraft, the same kind I just stopped working on in the USAF. The also have 25 F-15I aircraft, the israeli version of the F-15E Steike Eagle. Both have the lift capacity to go all the way to Iran with a load of bombs and return to Israel with the air refueling capacity their own air force has with the 5 KC-707 tankers they have. They do not need our assistance at all, not even for refueling. The only reason they would land in Iraq is if they were damaged, and I think they would ditch into the gulf before they did that. Their pilots are very well trained, second to ours. And their equipment is top of the line.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-equipment.htm