closing gitmo....

[Yurt]

I most definitely am not this fellow MFM.

[moderate democrat]

I will say the same thing to you that I said to red states rule... you are wrong, but I have no desire to spend any time arguing with you about it. If you want to discuss issues with me, that would be nice. If not... that's up to you.

[Yurt]

I will say the same thing to you that I said to red states rule... you are wrong, but I have no desire to spend any time arguing with you about it. If you want to discuss issues with me, that would be nice. If not... that's up to you.

whatever, i know the truth, but it really doesn't matter...carry on

[Immanuel]

One of the common misconceptions the left has is that Vietnam was a terrible defeat for the US and that iraq is another Vietnam. First of all the US had won the war in Vietnam by 1972. We were withdrawing because the north was defeated on the battle field. It was turned over to the South Vietnamese. The dem congress then voted to cut all funding and aid to South Vietnam. Effectively leaving them helpless. The north then invaded in 1975 and easily defeated the, basically, unarmed south causing the infamous US withdrawl of the US embassy personnel. The US military was never defeated, they were ordered out. The dem congress was defeated and showed their true colors along with the media.

As a comparison to Vietnam iraq compares in a few ways. First is the media representation of what is happening. They do every thing they can to make it look bad and destroy the morale of the citizens and the troops. They learned how to do this in Vietnam and it continues to this day. Then there is the dem congress who will do and say anything to get power over the people. At the first opportunity they will sell out iraq by cutting funding and withdrawing troops. Look for a resurgence of AQ there soon. iran will also be moving on iraq with the dem blessing very soon after the troops are removed.

DS: Most of the fighting in the jungles of the central highlands was with north vietnamese troops. The VC used the villages. They used them a lot. The NVA and VC took control of villages by beheading the village leaders and the educated people in them. They then made the village store weapons and equipment and provide food. When we moved into the area they hid among the people and fired on us to create as much havoc as possible and use any civilian casualties as propaganda. Sound familiar? It's an old communist tactic the muslims have expanded on.

The only aspects of similarity between Vietnam and iraq are the media and dems tactics. A repeat of history that is going to cost America a lot more than it's honor.

Gaffer,

I completely agree with you here. The U.S. Military will not be defeated by the terrorists. I don't even think the terrorists are foolish enough to think they can win that battle and as you say, the reason we left Vietnam humiliated was because of the politicians (well you said dems) I will stick to it being politicians in this discussion because that is the appropriate term for the situation in Iraq. We will eventually come home defeated because of the poor planning involved in waging this particular war.

The military is not threatened here, but as I have been trying to say all along, we will come home in the same manner as we did from Nam due to the screw up of the politicians. Now, I ask you, who has the major responsibility if this is the case?

They should have learned from Nam. They didn't.

Immie

[manu1959]

Gaffer,

I completely agree with you here. The U.S. Military will not be defeated by the terrorists. I don't even think the terrorists are foolish enough to think they can win that battle and as you say, the reason we left Vietnam humiliated was because of the politicians (well you said dems) I will stick to it being politicians in this discussion because that is the appropriate term for the situation in Iraq. We will eventually come home defeated because of the poor planning involved in waging this particular war.

The military is not threatened here, but as I have been trying to say all along, we will come home in the same manner as we did from Nam due to the screw up of the politicians. Now, I ask you, who has the major responsibility if this is the case?

They should have learned from Nam. They didn't.

Immie

our troops are not comming home....they are relocating to afganistan and there will still be military bases in iraq....same as there are bases in germany, spain, italy, england, japan, saudi, uae....etc etc etc.....

[Immanuel]

our troops are not comming home....they are relocating to afganistan and there will still be military bases in iraq....same as there are bases in germany, spain, italy, england, japan, saudi, uae....etc etc etc.....

Well, all I can say is that you have more faith in our politicians than I do. I hate to say this, but I am almost certain we will come home embarassed when this is said and done. I still say this war was poorly waged from the beginning.

Also, was that occupation and nation building the original intent of this war or was it the elimination of terrorism?

Immie

[manu1959]

Well, all I can say is that you have more faith in our politicians than I do. I hate to say this, but I am almost certain we will come home embarassed when this is said and done. I still say this war was poorly waged from the beginning.

Also, was that occupation and nation building the original intent of this war or was it the elimination of terrorism?

Immie

the original intent of the war in afganistan was to chase the 911 crowd.....which became a staging area for the invasion of iraq to enforce the 18 un resolutions and the violation of the cease fire from gulf war i and of course remove the infamous wmd threat......

obama has stated numerous times that he plans on withdrawing from iraq....i can assure you a us military base will remain......and he has also stated he would redeploy troops to afganistan....he never says bring all the troops home.....

[Yurt]

the original intent of the war in afganistan was to chase the 911 crowd.....which became a staging area for the invasion of iraq to enforce the 18 un resolutions and the violation of the cease fire from gulf war i and of course remove the infamous wmd threat......

obama has stated numerous times that he plans on withdrawing from iraq....i can assure you a us military base will remain......and he has also stated he would redeploy troops to afganistan....he never says bring all the troops home.....

i thought he said during the campaign, at least at one point, that he would remove all troops from iraq.

[manu1959]

i thought he said during the campaign, at least at one point, that he would remove all troops from iraq.

missed that if he did ..... i always heard the word "redeploy" ..... people assume he means to the us .... at least mccain was honest and said we would be there for 100 years ..... because we will be .... we have been in germany and japan for 60....

[Immanuel]

missed that if he did ..... i always heard the word "redeploy" ..... people assume he means to the us .... at least mccain was honest and said we would be there for 100 years ..... because we will be .... we have been in germany and japan for 60....

Are we still in Nam? Vietnam more closely relates to Iraq than the others.

Immie

[Gaffer]

Gaffer,

I completely agree with you here. The U.S. Military will not be defeated by the terrorists. I don't even think the terrorists are foolish enough to think they can win that battle and as you say, the reason we left Vietnam humiliated was because of the politicians (well you said dems) I will stick to it being politicians in this discussion because that is the appropriate term for the situation in Iraq. We will eventually come home defeated because of the poor planning involved in waging this particular war.

The military is not threatened here, but as I have been trying to say all along, we will come home in the same manner as we did from Nam due to the screw up of the politicians. Now, I ask you, who has the major responsibility if this is the case?

They should have learned from Nam. They didn't.

Immie

The dem controlled congress of the early 70's was the cause of South Vietnam's fall. The very guys that started and increased the troop numbers turned from supporting and funding the war to being against it. All for political purposes. All politicians are scum, but these guys went well beyond the call of scummery. They cut off ALL aid to the south. And when Ford went to them to get aid for the south they refused him.

There were no US fighting forces in Vietnam when it fell. The imprisonments and executions began. Cambodia went down next. Millions died. Millions more were tortured and starved. The dem congress can be very proud of their efforts. Many of them are still in congress today. And they have been working hard to attain the same victory in iraq and afghan. The media shares the same bloody hands.

Vietnam was the direct result of dems in power and their desire to keep that power. If the country has a different mindset they set the media to work to change that mind set. They have the control they have been wanting now and they will NEVER give it up again. Welcome to the USSA.

[Immanuel]

The dem controlled congress of the early 70's was the cause of South Vietnam's fall. The very guys that started and increased the troop numbers turned from supporting and funding the war to being against it. All for political purposes. All politicians are scum, but these guys went well beyond the call of scummery. They cut off ALL aid to the south. And when Ford went to them to get aid for the south they refused him.

There were no US fighting forces in Vietnam when it fell. The imprisonments and executions began. Cambodia went down next. Millions died. Millions more were tortured and starved. The dem congress can be very proud of their efforts. Many of them are still in congress today. And they have been working hard to attain the same victory in iraq and afghan. The media shares the same bloody hands.

Vietnam was the direct result of dems in power and their desire to keep that power. If the country has a different mindset they set the media to work to change that mind set. They have the control they have been wanting now and they will NEVER give it up again. Welcome to the USSA.

Okay, then how is what I have said wrong? Based on you post (#102) it seems and others, it seems that you think that my assessment of the final outcome of this war is wrong. Yet, you seem to be stating exactly what I have been saying although maybe with more authority and first hand knowledge. We're going to lose because the politicians have screwed up and will screw up in the end.

On the one hand it seems that you agree with me, yet on the other it seems you think I am wrong.

Immie

[Gaffer]

Okay, then how is what I have said wrong? Based on you post (#102) it seems and others, it seems that you think that my assessment of the final outcome of this war is wrong. Yet, you seem to be stating exactly what I have been saying although maybe with more authority and first hand knowledge. We're going to lose because the politicians have screwed up and will screw up in the end.

On the one hand it seems that you agree with me, yet on the other it seems you think I am wrong.

Immie

I guess it was the way you worded it. The fact is there were two wars in Vietnam. The first involved us. We won. The north was defeated. We withdrew, the south began to rebuild. Two years later, with the aid of the soviets and our congress the north started a new war. The south promptly lost. The idea that we were humiliated is what the media has spread around and everyone accepts. That was not the case. The embassy evacuation is what is always shown as the great American defeat. It was simply the removal of the last American representatives and non-combat people before the arrival of the NVA. The NVA even stopped a few miles from the embassy to allow for the final evacuation to be completed.

As I say it's in the wording. Your tending to word it as you have heard it from the media for the last 40 years and that gets me every time I read something like that. It's not that your wrong. It's that the media has fed you a lot of bullshit which you didn't filter, even though you try to filter out the crap.

The actions in iraq take place mostly in the cities among lots of civilians. Actions in Vietnam took place mostly in the country side and in small villages. The only similarities are in congress and the media who are using the same tactics they did back then. The actual war effort was not screwed up by politicians, it was by rumsfeld. But most of the politicians are doing everything they can to undermine the war effort.

After the troops are mostly withdrawn watch the move in congress to cut off all aid to iraq. It will be the next step.

[manu1959]

After the troops are mostly withdrawn watch the move in congress to cut off all aid to iraq. It will be the next step.

ask the Kurds about it ..... or the rawandans ...... or the somalis ....

[bullypulpit]

Oh yea BP, they are innocent bystanders - like this guy


Freed by the U.S., Saudi Becomes a Qaeda Chief

By ROBERT F. WORTH
Published: January 22, 2009
BEIRUT, Lebanon — The emergence of a former Guantánamo Bay detainee as the deputy leader of Al Qaeda’s Yemeni branch has underscored the potential complications in carrying out the executive order President Obama signed Thursday that the detention center be shut down within a year

The militant, Said Ali al-Shihri, is suspected of involvement in a deadly bombing of the United States Embassy in Yemen’s capital, Sana, in September. He was released to Saudi Arabia in 2007 and passed through a Saudi rehabilitation program for former jihadists before resurfacing with Al Qaeda in Yemen.

His status was announced in an Internet statement by the militant group and was confirmed by an American counterterrorism official.

“They’re one and the same guy,” said the official, who insisted on anonymity because he was discussing an intelligence analysis. “He returned to Saudi Arabia in 2007, but his movements to Yemen remain unclear.”

The development came as Republican legislators criticized the plan to close the Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, detention camp in the absence of any measures for dealing with current detainees. But it also helps explain why the new administration wants to move cautiously, taking time to work out a plan to cope with the complications.

Almost half the camp’s remaining detainees are Yemenis, and efforts to repatriate them depend in part on the creation of a Yemeni rehabilitation program — partly financed by the United States — similar to the Saudi one. Saudi Arabia has claimed that no graduate of its program has returned to terrorism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/wo...emen.html?_r=3

So why'd the Bush administration cut him loose?