90 Yr old Veteran Forced to take down Flag

[Joe Steel]

Perhaps you haven't read my previous emails Joe - I have two properties - one is in an unincorporated area of my county and I have a 40' flagpole and no one has any right to dictate what I do with it.

My other property is covered under a HOA...........so I do have real world experience with this very issue. You quote some paragraphs that you picked up on the internet and attempt to convince us that you have "real world" experience?!

And I won't demean the word "silly" by referencing it to you.............anyone who would refer to a MOH recipient as a Prima Donna is just not worth the time to educate.

I read the previous posting.

You should check the deed for the lot in the unincorporated part of the county. It could be subject to deed restrictions. Your deed should tell you.

Here's a brief primer on deed restrictions. Deed restrictions are placed on real property by the original developer. They may "run with the land" which means they can last forever regardless of who owns the lot and how many times it changes ownership. Anyone who owns a lot in a subdvision covered by deed restrictions can enforce them against any other person who owns a lot in the subdivision. Should your lot be part of a subdivision of more than one lot and should it have a deed restriction against flagpoles, anyone who owns a lot in the subdivision could force you to remove your flagpole.

Now you have a bit more education.

[Joe Steel]

Here's the rub that I've been pondering....there has been some talk about Mr. Barfoot not honoring the rules of his HOA, but has anyone considered the fact that most HOA's make people sign an agreement that has vague references to matters such as this? Does anyone here believe that the HOA agreement specifically spelled out the terms "no one can put a flagpole in their yard"? I doubt that very seriously.

Deed restrictions are included the the Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions filed with the County. Anyone who buys a lot without checking the deed has no right to complain about the restrictions.

As for Joe Steel, I've read a lot of your posts, but I find your stuff to be so juvenile and combative without cause that your score makes perfectly good sense to me. I truly couldn't possibly be less interested in your opinions and thoughts. I figure either life has slapped you around too much, or not quite enough yet; but, your arguments conjure up images in my mind of a bratty, disheveled, snotty nosed kid flailing in the toy aisle at the local department store because you can't have that toy you want so badly. Actually, that's how I see a lot of libs, though, so don't get the idea I'm just picking on you.

Your judgement is severely flawed.

[Jeff]

What are you babbling about? You're making even less sense than usual.

To you I am sure I am, when ya have no defense attack, the liberal way, as I stated you said the man should be crushed like a bug for not following HOA rules, I just simply stated I felt he could and many others have crushed your sorry ass like a bug !!!

[Joe Steel]

To you I am sure I am...

...and to everyone else who lives in a reality-based world.

...many others have crushed your sorry ass like a bug !!!

When did this happen?

[Jeff]

...and to everyone else who lives in a reality-based world.

Says you


When did this happen?

As I stated I am sure all your life, guys like you spew shit on the internet cause your not man enough to stand up and talk face to face with anyone, if you did you wouldn't be filled with such hatred, nice talking to ya dumb ass

[SassyLady]

I read the previous posting.

You should check the deed for the lot in the unincorporated part of the county. It could be subject to deed restrictions. Your deed should tell you.

Here's a brief primer on deed restrictions. Deed restrictions are placed on real property by the original developer. They may "run with the land" which means they can last forever regardless of who owns the lot and how many times it changes ownership. Anyone who owns a lot in a subdvision covered by deed restrictions can enforce them against any other person who owns a lot in the subdivision. Should your lot be part of a subdivision of more than one lot and should it have a deed restriction against flagpoles, anyone who owns a lot in the subdivision could force you to remove your flagpole.

Now you have a bit more education.

Joe - I don't own a "lot" in a subdivision at my primary home (only my second home is in an association)..........I own acres of property in the unincorporated area ..... that means out in the boonies ......... where we are still allowed to shoot things that come on our property without our permission, or just because we want to target practice. I know this is hard for someone like yourself to understand, but I have no deed restrictions....because I am the developer.

So, just to remind you..........I have a 40' flagpole that no one can tell me to remove.

Oh..........and I can play music as loud as I want all night long..........no noise ordinances out here either. And, I can paint my house any color I want. Oh, and I can put up a fence as high as I want around my property. I have my own well, septic, propane..........the only thing I don't generate for myself at this time is electricity, and that might change soon with the solar panels we are planning to install. Gosh, I'm loving this place more and more because of the freedoms I have regarding my own property.

No you have a bit more education about the difference between HOA's, developers, subdivisions, unincorporated land, etc.

[jimnyc]

I have no way of knowing how many, if any, will be filed. I'm confident, however, that a lawyer with a few hours to spare could crush Van Barfoot.

None will be filed. No lawyer will touch this case. Only YOU think in such ways when addressing a war hero. Think otherwise? Then take my bet, it's that simple. This man will receive ZERO backlash for going against the HOA, from other homeowners, lawyers or anyone else you can think of.

Also, a judge has the right to now decide with our hero, as the HOA gave him permission. So good luck for your "theoretical" attorney who could crush him.

And lastly, he could easily demand a jury of his peers. Good luck finding 12 more assholes like you to sit over the case. Fact is, a jury would let him walk unfazed.

You were obsessed with Moore. I merely was trying to disabuse you of your misconceptions.

Me obsessed? If you call pointing out the fat blob of shits lies, and PROVING that he stated he was a documentary maker, when you stated he never said that, and I proved you wrong with the own "mans" words - then I'm guilty as charged.

[Mr. P]

None will be filed. No lawyer will touch this case. .

And lastly, he could easily demand a jury of his peers. Good luck finding 12 more assholes like you to sit over the case. Fact is, a jury would let him walk unfazed.

.

You're right..NO lawyer would have touched this. Why? Because the guy had a contract.

Now, you and others here will be shocked, but if I were on this jury I'd side with the HOA (AND I HATE HOAs!)

Strip away the mans age and background and what do you have? A contract he signed when he bought the home. END OF STORY.

[Joe Steel]

Joe - I don't own a "lot" in a subdivision at my primary home (only my second home is in an association)..........I own acres of property in the unincorporated area ..... that means out in the boonies .........

Here's some more education for you.

"Unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies." It just means "not a municipal corporation." I live in an unincorporated part of my county and it's in the heart of the suburbs with franchise restaurants, strip malls, office buildings and housing developments sitting side-by-side but not within the limits of any city, town or village.

And you could own a lot in a subdivision. When a real estate developer parcels out a large piece of land into lots he is "subdividing" it. These lots need not be the typical quarter acre lots of tract housing. They could one or more acres. Check your deed. It might name the subdivision.

[jimnyc]

You're right..NO lawyer would have touched this. Why? Because the guy had a contract.

Now, you and others here will be shocked, but if I were on this jury I'd side with the HOA (AND I HATE HOAs!)

Strip away the mans age and background and what do you have? A contract he signed when he bought the home. END OF STORY.

While that may be true...

First off, I'd like to read the wording of the "contract" and see it implicitly deny the use of a flagpole. Many HOA's leave portions ambiguous so that they can enforce to their choosing.

Secondly, a contract doesn't mean it could never reach the courts. He could just as easily fight the contract in court. Not all contracts are 100% legally binding, and the court has the right to deem portions unenforceable.

But IF he refused to take it down, and the HOA also stuck to their ground - it would in fact have taken intervention from the courts to go any further. He then could have asked for a jury of his peers instead of a decision by a judge. The HOA cannot just boot him out (eviction) or go onto his property and remove things without a court order.

[SassyLady]

Here's some more education for you.

"Unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies." It just means "not a municipal corporation." I live in an unincorporated part of my county and it's in the heart of the suburbs with franchise restaurants, strip malls, office buildings and housing developments sitting side-by-side but not within the limits of any city, town or village.

And you could own a lot in a subdivision. When a real estate developer parcels out a large piece of land into lots he is "subdividing" it. These lots need not be the typical quarter acre lots of tract housing. They could one or more acres. Check your deed. It might name the subdivision.

Joe - you still don't get it. I do not live in a subdivision. Do you know that I have to have my own water tank with a fire hydrant on it so that if I do have a fire the fire trucks can hook into it. Now.....do you really think I bought this property from a developer?

Why do you keep insisting that my unincorporated area is anything like yours? I have told you explicitly what type of property I own and you continue to try and fit it into the same parameters that you find yourself in. Please, open your mind to the fact that I do live in the boonies and it just so happens to be unincorporated (doesn't mean that unincorporated is always in the boonies). No strip malls, no restaurants, no office buildings...........just a lot of vineyards, horse and dairy farms, orchards, etc.

I did not buy my property from a developer. Why must you think all property has at one time or another been owned by a developer. That just shows your ignorance. My property has always been privately owned just as the few hundred properties around me have always been privately owned (with a lot of them being handed down from generation to generation). They are varying sizes....I won't tell you how big mine is, but the one across the street is 35 acres and the one behind that is over 100 acres and the one behind me is only 12 acres. No developer came in here and parceled out the land and put deed restrictions on it.

The property next door to me has been in their family for over 100 years...........I wonder what type of deed restrictions the developer put on that piece.

Unincorporated where I live means - we have no sidewalks, street lights, gutter/drainage system, no fire hydrants, no bus stops, no deliveries from pizza joints, no noise ordinances, the right to shoot the neighbors dog if it comes on my property (and other varmits if I so choose), no restrictions on the type of fence I want to put up, etc., and more importantly no one to tell me that I couldn't put up a 40' flag pole!!! (In fact, we had a flag pole raising party at our annual Memorial Day party and all the neighbors came and helped). So, as you can see, this area has a lot less restrictions than some unincorporated areas.

Joe - I know that you THINK you know everything, because you read about it somewhere on the internet or in a book, but why you continue to argue the point with someone who is actually living the reality is beyond me.

[SassyLady]

Not all contracts are 100% legally binding, and the court has the right to deem portions unenforceable.

Correct Jim,

If all contracts were 100% legally binding, there would be no need for so many lawyers.

[Joe Steel]

Joe - I know that you THINK you know everything, because you read about it somewhere on the internet or in a book, but why you continue to argue the point with someone who is actually living the reality is beyond me.

Everything you say about your property may be true; it certainly could be. The problem is, you're extrapolating your personal experiences into generalities which are wrong; e.g. "unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies" as you earlier insisted. I'm just correcting your errors and educating you. Ignorance is a common problem among conservatives and I like to help when I can.

[Kathianne]

Everything you say about your property may be true; it certainly could be. The problem is, you're extrapolating your personal experiences into generalities which are wrong; e.g. "unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies" as you earlier insisted. I'm just correcting your errors and educating you. Ignorance is a common problem among conservatives and I like to help when I can.

That's NOT what she did, it's what YOU DO. That was how she was helping you.

[Gaffer]

You all realize that joe is a fat kid that lives in his mothers basement and eats pizza and candy bars, right? His goal in life is to be a gulag commander. And he actually imagines that he wins arguments here on this board.