Humans, biological omnivores?

[CSM]

Simply because there is no reason to eat meat,



I think I have only ever started 2 topics on eating meat, but have talked about it much more than that. Simply because people ask questions or make statements. This thread started to put up a pic of my new cat, another was to put up a song, it is others that bring the discussion about, and granted it is not one I shy away from when it is raised.

As for morality. We all think we are more moral than others in different aspects of our life. Fact is you support a system that needlessly slaughters animals, I find that morally wrong, you may not, but that's your call.

In essence, this is another case of "we will have to agree to disagree". I will say however that I dislike your implication that I am a murderer, morally inferior, etc. because I eat meat. Not only do I eat meat, I ENJOY eating meat!

[/QUOTE]

LOL...again, I don't find the slaughter of animals for food as "needless".

I guess I have to ask: where do you draw the line? You don't NEED to eat ALL types of vegetables, so I presume (based on your reasoning) that you only eat certain ones. Obviously, fruits are out as well since you don't NEED to eat them ... and nuts of all kinds as well.

Anyway, on a final note, I did not realize that this thread (or the other one for that matter) had been derailed and my apologies to all (especially Noir, who only wanted to show off the new feline) for further taking it of topic. Regarding cats...I like them fine, especially deep fried!

[Luna Tick]

What that means is that the human body is better at digesting plant food than meat, but is still capable of digesting meat. That makes us omnivores. We do better with diets that are chiefly plant-based and if meat is included, it's in small amounts. That basically describes the diets of people in Asian countries who tend to live the longest and be the healthiest.

[glockmail]

Still waiting for Noir to acknowledge the lie....

[Noir]

Still waiting for Noir to acknowledge the lie....

Hey, sorry i didn't see the post, indeed it seems the statement "* Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores." is a lie.

[glockmail]

Hey, sorry i didn't see the post, indeed it seems the statement "* Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores." is a lie.

Which means that your whole theory of humans not designed to eat meat is a lie.

[Noir]

Which means that your whole theory of humans not designed to eat meat is a lie.

Hardly the whole theorie, unless you have something saying that we really do have sharp teeth and claws, and that our saliva is acidic not alkiline, and that out intestines are smooth and not folded (which btw is where I think this problem of length of the intestine comes from, for it's inter surface is not smooth, but full of folds, giving it a far greater surface area than it may apear through length alone, but as I am not certain of that I will not argue it) add to that the health benifits we get from not eatin meat like a no colestoral diet ect, and can you truly say we're made to eat meat? Personaly I think not. Sure we can eat it, doesn't mean we should. And ofcourse this is purly on a practical level, and does nit delve into the morality aspect.

[glockmail]

Well again, God gave us large fore brains to make and use sharp tools like knives to cut our meat, as well as build fires to cook it first. Large claws and sharp teeth would therefore be unnecessary, as well as a fashion faux paux.

[Noir]

I don't sit well with this whole 'God gave us the ability to, ergo it is right that we should' for two reasons. The first being I do not believe in any sort of god. The second being that could you not then use this to justify all sorts of wrongs? Because afterall god gave us the ability to lie, and the ability to murder ect ect.
Surly by your own admitence god has given us the ability to do many wrong things. It is however for us to chose if we are to do those wrong things or not. Though again it's pretty odd me asking such questions as I don't believe in a God in the first place.

You also seem to be ignoring the health issues, as I memo saying in a previous post why would God give us a complex brain so we could eat meat without claws ect, only for it to give us high blood pressure and colestoral ect, when it doesn't in other animals.

[glockmail]

I never said "God gave us the ability to, ergo it is right" or anything to that effect.

Above all else God wants us to have free will. That's why he designed us to eat meat, plants, or any combination of the two. That's why He lets criminal behavior exist, why He permits gluttons and why he allows you to believe something as silly as that His creations happened out of pure chance. With that freedom, however, comes responsibility, and the absolute requirement to face the consequences of our decisions.

[Noir]

I never said "God gave us the ability to, ergo it is right" or anything to that effect.

Above all else God wants us to have free will. That's why he designed us to eat meat, plants, or any combination of the two. That's why He lets criminal behavior exist, why He permits gluttons and why he allows you to believe something as silly as that His creations happened out of pure chance. With that freedom, however, comes responsibility, and the absolute requirement to face the consequences of our decisions.

No, but you justify the fact that you eat meat by the fact that you can, because good gave you a big brain =/

Indeedy, responsibility, i don't happen to find it responsible, moral or necessary for us to murder these animals. and added to the moral reasons, there are the practical/health reasons.

[Trigg]

this might have been pointed out already but here goes, didn't feel like slogging through 4 pages.

Contrary to what your magazine article says, the human small intestine, at 23 feet, is a little under eight times body length (assuming a mouth-to-anus "body length" of three feet). This is about midway between cats (three times body length), dogs (3-1/2 times), and other well-known meat eaters on the one hand and plant eaters such as cattle (20 to 1) and horses (12 to 1) on the other. This tends to support the idea that we are omnivores.

Herbivores also have a variety of specialized digestive organs capable of breaking down cellulose, the main component of plant tissue. Humans find cellulose totally indigestible, and even plant eaters have to take their time with it. If you were a ruminant (cud eater), for instance, you might have a stomach with four compartments, enabling you to cough up last night's alfalfa and chew on it all over again.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ians-by-nature

Here also is an article on monkeys and the fact that they do indeed eat meat.

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

4 pages to find out that humans are indeed biologically omnivores, Noir doesn't like that fact, but it's still a fact.

[Noir]

this might have been pointed out already but here goes, didn't feel like slogging through 6 pages.



http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...ians-by-nature

Here also is an article on monkeys and the fact that they do indeed eat meat.

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~stanford/chimphunt.html

Indeedy, that goes to show we can't break down Grass, i'm not saying we should eat grass,

As for the monkey eating meat, i know they do, even though i'm sure it will be as bad for them as it is for us, though it may benifit them at this current stage of the evolution more than it hampers them, as it once did for man.

[glockmail]

No, but you justify the fact that you eat meat by the fact that you can, because good gave you a big brain =/

Indeedy, responsibility, i don't happen to find it responsible, moral or necessary for us to murder these animals. and added to the moral reasons, there are the practical/health reasons.

Murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

m-w.com

Redefining the English language to try and make a point is always a failure.

Furthermore, brain development is enhanced with a high protein (meat) diet:

Dietary quality is correlated with brain size. Foley and Lee first consider brain size vs. primate feeding strategies, and note that folivorous diets (leaves) are correlated with smaller brains, while fruit and animal foods (insects, meat) are correlated with larger brains. The energetic costs, both daily and cumulative, of brains in humans and chimps, over the first 1-5 years of life are then compared. They note [Foley and Lee 1991, p. 226]:

Overall the energetic costs of brain maintenance for modern humans are about three times those of a chimpanzee. Growth costs will also be commensurately larger.

Then they consider encephalization and delayed maturation in humans (compared to apes), and conclude, based on an analysis of brain growth, that the high energy costs of brain development are responsible for the delay in maturation.

http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/...-anat-4a.shtml

[Noir]

I have said on countless occasions, i know it is not murder by the letter of the law, however, in my opinion a death for no reason is murder, and thus i call it as such.

and you can have a high protein diet without having to eat one slab of animal flesh.

[glockmail]

I have said on countless occasions, i know it is not murder by the letter of the law, however, in my opinion a death for no reason is murder, and thus i call it as such.

and you can have a high protein diet without having to eat one slab of animal flesh.

On countless occasions, redefining the English language to try and make a point is always a failure.

It's not just protein that stimulates brain development, but animal protein, along with certain types of animal fats.

But recent research shows that fish is much more than just an alternative source of animal protein. Fish oils in fatty fish are the richest source of a type of fat that is vital to normal brain development in unborn babies and infants. Without adequate amounts of these fatty acids, normal brain development does not take place.

http://www.fao.org/FOCUS/E/fisheries/nutr.htm