Indoctrination in action

[Noir]

In the name of 'balance' here's some pakistani children undergoing Islamic indoctrination

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Now, rather than trying to saying i'm some sort of Christian persecutor, can we discus how disgusting it is that children are brainwashed by their parents religions, and how it is not the right of the parent to brainwash their child.

[Gaffer]

And i am not 'non-religious' i am 'anti-religoius'

That"s where we differ. I don't care what others believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone and they don't attempt to force it on me. You, on the other hand, appear to be trying to indoctrinate others with your anti beliefs. It's like your seeking converts.

[Noir]

That"s where we differ. I don't care what others believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone and they don't attempt to force it on me. You, on the other hand, appear to be trying to indoctrinate others with your anti beliefs. It's like your seeking converts.

Indeedy, evil prevails when good men do nothing.

Religion has not hurt you? I doubt that.

The fact is that it is forced on people, everyday, they're called children.

[Gaffer]

Indeedy, evil prevails when good men do nothing.

Religion has not hurt you? I doubt that.

The fact is that it is forced on people, everyday, they're called children.

Yes, and because this country and yours has freedom of religion there's nothing that can be done about it.

[Missileman]

I'd be curious to know how many of the parents were truly aware of the extent of what they were doing to those kids.

[glockmail]

No, its not geared towards christianity, but religion, however to put it in a context that is easy for you to relate to i have chosen this video.

Do you think that what goes on in that video is acceptable? Cus i sure as hell (if you don't mind the pun) do not.

[YOUTUBE]h23qtCq2gDY[/YOUTUBE]

[Gaffer]

I'd be curious to know how many of the parents were truly aware of the extent of what they were doing to those kids.

Good point. Some of the parents might be very disturb to see that.

[jimnyc]

Whats the point in me posting about the non-sense that is Islam on this site? As far as i am aware there are no Muslims here.

Noir, not to ruffle feathers, but you have posted about Muslims here. But... Most of the time it was somewhat in defense of their religion, or as religion as a whole because someone bashed the Muslim faith. It does appear to me that since you get hounded a bit about atheism from the Catholics here that it has worn you out and you have now went on the offensive. I'll cite a few examples of what I speak of below. (For the record, I am Catholic, but I am ever learning and skeptical about everything in this world. As a result, I don't speak much religion and I do my best to avoid putting down others beliefs as it is a highly personal decision).

You recently stated your objection to how parents send their kids to faith schools (I assume that refers to 'ol fashioned Catholic schools as well), but in this post in reply to Muslims, you state:

People must have the free right to chose to live how they want, be that Muslim, Christian, Athiest ect ect, so how would you propose stopping the spread of a faith, without resorting, ironicly, to the same tatics as that of the faith which you despise?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...8&postcount=13

Here you defend against painting Muslims with a large brush, somewhat similar to what took place in this thread:

You're judging the many by the actions of the few, i assume you don't jugde all christains by the actions of those who bomb abortion clinics?
As for taking over, it must be any day now then, as we have about 1.6 million Muslims here at the moment,
But what are they waiting for in france (5 to 6 million Muslims)... or Germany (3 million Muslims)?
Srsly dude, chill your baps and stop acting like a twerp.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...7&postcount=21

Again, somewhat defending Islam:

Normal everyday Muslim people that you meet in the street or work in your local shop and send their children to the same schools as yours are not radical Islam

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...7&postcount=26

Another defense of Muslims:

Yes it is, i know plently of Muslims who live as well within our way of life and freedoms as anyone of anyother religion or non-religion

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...31&postcount=8

There are a few more but you get the point. You seem to have an issue with Catholicism/Christianity, and that could very well be because of those you are debating with on this board, I don't know. But you consistently defend Islam whereas I only see you somewhat bashing those who are Christian/Catholic. If you equally applied your offense/defense to both religions, then I wouldn't say a word, but you seem more bent on defending Islam while constantly bringing down those here who follow Catholicism/Christianity.

Last but not least, this is why I don't debate religion with anyone. Sure, I'll go crazy when condemning the current selection of radical Muslims, but I've also defended Muslims and stated many times over that I have Muslim friends and that not all Muslims are evil.

Don't think I'm joining in and ganging up on you, just pointing out what I see as a double standard.

[Noir]

(my apologies for only being able to address one post at present but i am pressed for time, and will return and address the others when possible)

@Jim,

I have said on a few occasions that i am not against the people, but against the religion.

In cases where idiots try and say that all Muslims are comparable with terrorists or the such then i will obviously rebut that nonsense. In the same way that i do not think all Christians want abortion doctors murdered or anything like that. And indeed i have grown up surrounded my many wonderful people who are Christians, but it is not their religion that has made them wonderful, it is themselves,

As for freedom of religion as it has been brought up in what i have said previously. My views on religion as a whole have been shifting fast in the past few months, i have never believed it has much of a positive effect on society, but i am now starting to believe it has a negative effect. But what that will mean when coupled with basic human rights and freedoms i am not yet sure.

What i am however sure of is that the rights of children are trounced on by religions, in some cases to an extreme degree (like the videos in this thread show) in others to a less extreme, but still extremely important degrees.

But just to make clear again, i hold nothing against or for Christians or Atheists or Muslims or Deists or Buddhists and so forth. There are good people and bad people, regardless of their faith, or lack of.

[chloe]

(my apologies for only being able to address one post at present but i am pressed for time, and will return and address the others when possible)

@Jim,

I have said on a few occasions that i am not against the people, but against the religion.

In cases where idiots try and say that all Muslims are comparable with terrorists or the such then i will obviously rebut that nonsense. In the same way that i do not think all Christians want abortion doctors murdered or anything like that. And indeed i have grown up surrounded my many wonderful people who are Christians, but it is not their religion that has made them wonderful, it is themselves,

As for freedom of religion as it has been brought up in what i have said previously. My views on religion as a whole have been shifting fast in the past few months, i have never believed it has much of a positive effect on society, but i am now starting to believe it has a negative effect. But what that will mean when coupled with basic human rights and freedoms i am not yet sure.

What i am however sure of is that the rights of children are trounced on by religions, in some cases to an extreme degree (like the videos in this thread show) in others to a less extreme, but still extremely important degrees.

But just to make clear again, i hold nothing against or for Christians or Atheists or Muslims or Deists or Buddhists and so forth. There are good people and bad people, regardless of their faith, or lack of.

I saw Jesus Camp thats an old documentary, the premise behind it was that muslims are raising their children to die for Allah and that christians should be willing to die for Christ Jesus. There are radical groups in anything including non-religion. I am not a member of any religion but I keep hoping one day I will find one that is right for me and rings true to me.

[BoogyMan]

Here is some indoctrination for you:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfhHHCXxVe4[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAbHttDSRJc[/YOUTUBE]

[HogTrash]

[YOUTUBE]h23qtCq2gDY[/YOUTUBE]

No doubt our young Noir, as with many young people, has been strongly influenced by marxist athiest.

This is largely due to the their marxist indoctrination in the universities and even the K-12 public schools.

From the video...

Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum; "If God is not, everything is permitted"

[crin63]

That video and their speaking in supposed tongues is a ridiculous sham. Its not Christian and has nothing to do with genuine Christianity no matter what they call themselves.

Tongues that were spoken in The Bible were known languages but not previously spoken or known by those men who spoke them on the day of Pentecost. It wasn't just a bunch of jibberish, it wasn't taught and it was only spoken with Jews present.

However wrong they are, its still their children to raise. At least they aren't teaching their kids to blow themselves up in order to get to heaven.

[SassyLady]

Makes you sick.

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Noir, I went to one of these camps when I was a kid....at the time it seemed like fun and got me away from the family for a week. However, it was this type of extremism that turned me off religion eventually. I am not religious, but I am also not anti-religion. I am anti-extremism ...... of any sort.

Your question is whether it is indoctrination ......... of course it is.

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies

Can you tell me anything a parent teaches their children that isn't some type of indoctrination? For example: Teaching them to say "please" and "thank you" when they want/receive something is indoctrination into a set of values. Making them brush their teeth and take a bath is a form of indoctrination regarding health. Some things are better learned through dogmatic teachings.

And children are not just being indoctrinated by their parents. Watching television is a form of indoctrination.....playing video games ....participating in sports ....listening to music.....teaching children how to care for animals .... teaching language and math.....and the list goes on and on. We cannot raise our children in a void of indoctrination if they want to survive in today's world.

Thankfully, in America, we still have the ability to question the ideas being taught to us, whether it is faith, science, history, et. al. The beauty of being a human being is that at some point in time we reach the age to make our own choices and hopefully some of the indoctrination sticks and some of it diminishes.

Noir, I hope that you know that being anti-religious doesn't mean you have to be an atheist.

[HogTrash]

Noir, I went to one of these camps when I was a kid....at the time it seemed like fun and got me away from the family for a week. However, it was this type of extremism that turned me off religion eventually. I am not religious, but I am also not anti-religion. I am anti-extremism ...... of any sort.

Your question is whether it is indoctrination ......... of course it is.

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies

Can you tell me anything a parent teaches their children that isn't some type of indoctrination? For example: Teaching them to say "please" and "thank you" when they want/receive something is indoctrination into a set of values. Making them brush their teeth and take a bath is a form of indoctrination regarding health. Some things are better learned through dogmatic teachings.

And children are not just being indoctrinated by their parents. Watching television is a form of indoctrination.....playing video games ....participating in sports ....listening to music.....teaching children how to care for animals .... teaching language and math.....and the list goes on and on. We cannot raise our children in a void of indoctrination if they want to survive in today's world.

Thankfully, in America, we still have the ability to question the ideas being taught to us, whether it is faith, science, history, et. al. The beauty of being a human being is that at some point in time we reach the age to make our own choices and hopefully some of the indoctrination sticks and some of it diminishes.

Noir, I hope that you know that being anti-religious doesn't mean you have to be an atheist.

There are those who are simply skeptical about religion and the existance of God and these nonbelievers don't give it much thought.

Then there are the atheist who don't believe and hate the fact that anyone else does and ridicules and tries to convert believers to atheism.

The latter are the ones who have been marxist indoctrinated and are programmed to spread their anti-religious beliefs wherever they will be heard.

Marxism is an ideological plague that spreads and infects those who are weak of mind, especially among the young and the poor of society.