Indoctrination in action

[Noir]

Ah the standard bile of the left wing haters of religion. Do you have any understanding of what submission means or do you hang onto the idea that submission means abuse? When you are so caught up in the world and your own personal bias that you cannot, or more likely will not, see that we are talking about submission as to man as the spiritual head it is a shame to you.

God clearly gave man and woman different roles. Your view assumes the man to be a bloodied rapacious ogre unworthy of the spiritual headship of which the Bible speaks of the man having in the home. You clearly have much assumption piled onto your plate and very little fact.

Lol, you know of the 2 or 3 answers i was expecting that was not one of them.

So tell me, what does the word submission mean?

and what about the other words? Like 'teach' and 'silent' I assume they must have different meanings too?

[Abbey Marie]

There was a Christian bus campaign, by a mainstream Christian group (which was the inspiration for the much more light hearted atheist bus campaign) and what was the Christian message? That non-Christians would "spend all eternity in torment in Hell" and would "burn in a lake of fire" Most tolerant, yes?
I i personally believe that teaching children about heaven and hell is immoral.

Do you have any evidence that moral code comes from religion? As apose to created by man? I point you again to the teachings of Maat. Assuming that you do not believe in the God Maat then it must of been a human who came up with the idea "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another" No?

I merely brought that up to show that difference of opinion on a moral issue is to be expected.

Unless the financiers of that campaign have the desire and the power to compel others into doing or abstaining from certain behaviors, how is this intolerant? What exactly does it mean to not tolerate something unless you have some power over the person's behavior? If a dad says to his child, "I will not tolerate that from you", the child knows that if he continues the behavior, there will be some bad consequence. That is intolerance that actually means something. How can this Christian group do anything to anyone? Are they in power in that country? Can they arrest people for not being Christian these days? (Btw, this is exactly what your Islamic friends do)

In fact, this campaign sounds like no more than an expression of a strongly held belief, and one whose goal is to save people from the suffering that is hell. And non-believers should have nothing to fear at all, since they don't believe in hell.

[BoogyMan]

Lol, you know of the 2 or 3 answers i was expecting that was not one of them.

So tell me, what does the word submission mean?

and what about the other words? Like 'teach' and 'silent' I assume they must have different meanings too?

It is not what you expected because you don't seem to have anything in your bag of tricks other than stereotypes.

What part of the man having a different role than the woman do you not understand? The man is to take the leadership roles in Christs church, not the woman. This does not demean women in any way, they have a different role as given by God.

Submission is to follow the headship of another. The other is to be the godly man in the home and BOTH man and woman are to be in submission to God.

Get your facts straight before you start trashing something you obviously have grievously little knowledge of.

[Noir]

Unless the financiers of that campaign have the desire and the power to compel others into doing or abstaining from certain behaviors, how is this intolerant? What exactly does it mean to not tolerate something unless you have some power over the person's behavior? If a dad says to his child, "I will not tolerate that from you", the child knows that if he continues the behavior, there will be some bad consequence. That is intolerance that actually means something. How can this Christian group do anything to anyone? Are they in power in that country? Can they arrest people for not being Christian these days? (Btw, this is exactly what your Islamic friends do)

In fact, this campaign sounds like no more than an expression of a strongly held belief, and one whose goal is to save people from the suffering that is hell. And non-believers should have nothing to fear at all, since they don't believe in hell.

Take it up with glock, we was the one that started using the word intolerant, i merely kept the idea going in order to relate to his post.

Indeedy, a strongly held belief that was fine for them to advertise, and no one took any notice, but as soon as the atheist campain started (which was much more light hearted) all hell broke lose, so to speak. Suddenly atheists were being visibly intolerant, arrogant and dis-respectful lol.

and just as a side note, there was a new counter christian bus campain, unvailed after the atheist one, and looking at the following pics, don't you think it quiet amazing that it is atheists who are branded arrogant and so forth?

Atheist banner


Christian banner

[Noir]

It is not what you expected because you don't seem to have anything in your bag of tricks other than stereotypes.

What part of the man having a different role than the woman do you not understand? The man is to take the leadership roles in Christs church, not the woman. This does not demean women in any way, they have a different role as given by God.

Submission is to follow the headship of another. The other is to be the godly man in the home and BOTH man and woman are to be in submission to God.

Get your facts straight before you start trashing something you obviously have grievously little knowledge of.

So can a women be the head of the church?

[chloe]

Very true, there are wicked people out there, whether they are theist, atheist or anywhere in between. But i have never heard of someone being anti-gay because they are atheist, or that they hate a certain race of people because there is no god. I have i have certainly heard of people that are anti-gay because their God disapproves of it, or that they hate a certain race of people because there is a their God wants them to hate them, and so forth.

When you say that a person should be able to indoctrinate their child you open the door for them to be taught who knows what, in the name of religion.

Now obviously i'm not saying that every religious person raises their children to be racists or homophobic or anything like that, but the main premise of any religion is to do what your God wants you to do.

Well I have met an atheist who is against gay people. Atheist means not believing in Gods/God or religion, there are plenty of people who have that stance and still teach that they are superior to others because of their genes. People indoctrinate based on their belief whether its a belief you agree with or not. If someone doesn't believe in religion but they believe in superior race, or genes, or they believe that physiologically one sex is better or that homosexuality is not normal they will indocrinate their kids that way.

People do that with their political beliefs too. Children grow up and they decide to believe what they were taught or reject it. In radical religions you have fanaticism and terrorism and you have that with hate groups that aren't religious to. That is why there are laws to protect people who might be attacked or hurt by those beliefs from those kind of groups.

[glockmail]

Is this an attempt to sound like a bad-ass in the internet?

Why do I intimidate you?

[glockmail]

Thats all very nice, the problem is the alternative, because it is even more improbable still, infact, infinity less likely.

How so?

[Noir]

Well I have met an atheist who is against gay people. Atheist means not believing in Gods/God or religion, there are plenty of people who have that stance and still teach that they are superior to others because of their genes. People indoctrinate based on their belief whether its a belief you agree with or not. If someone doesn't believe in religion but they believe in superior race, or genes, or they believe that physiologically one sex is better or that homosexuality is not normal they will indocrinate their kids that way.

People do that with their political beliefs too. Children grow up and they decide to believe what they were taught or reject it. In radical religions you have fanaticism and terrorism and you have that with hate groups that aren't religious to. That is why there are laws to protect people who might be attacked or hurt by those beliefs from those kind of groups.

Indeedy, i'm sure there are many atheist racists, but they are not racist because of their religion, as some religious people are. You do not think it is acceptable to pass on racism, but is it okay to pass on racism through religion? and if not then at what point do you stop?

[Noir]

Why do I intimidate you?

Naw, i find it quite sweet ^_^

[Noir]

How so?

Because your argument in that is based upon the fact that such an incredibly unlikely event could not of happened by chance. It must have been done by a god.

And yet the very existence of such a god is less likely still, just you try and prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that the coins were put their by a god.

[Noir]

Just as a wee note, i am heading off tonight for a few days and so will not be able to reply until Sunday night / Monday morning

See ya'll then, don't miss me too much

[chloe]

Indeedy, i'm sure there are many atheist racists, but they are not racist because of their religion, as some religious people are. You do not think it is acceptable to pass on racism, but is it okay to pass on racism through religion? and if not then at what point do you stop?

Noir, it is not really accurate to say that atheists do not indcotrinate. Any atheist who has decided scientifically speaking that Genetics not god or religion is all they need as Proof that they are superior to another and that furthermore teaches their children to hate based on an superior/inferior belief is indoctrinating.

In fact an atheist who teaches their child to make fun of religious people or mock, or disrepect them because the atheist doesnt believe in religion or god, is indoctrinating the child to act as if they are superior and another inferior all based on their firm belief in no God no religion. That is a a subtle form of discrimination and if it was taken to a fanatical lets say richard dawkins proportion, well then it could very well breed and indoctrinate hatred and intolerance for religions and for people of faith.

[SassyLady]

If i may answer with a question, do you think it is right that some one raises their child to be a racist, or sexist or some other undesirable 'ist'?

Noir --- answer me this. If the parents are racist, sexist or some other 'ist' and you feel it is wrong for them to raise their children within their own belief system...........then who do you feel should be doing the raising and under what belief system??? The government?......in orphanages perhaps? Or are you advocating that the government set up interactive cameras in every home and direct the parents on every aspect of their teachings? Or are you advocating that all churches, of any religion be closed to anyone under 18?

Instead of demonizing what people of faith teach their children, give us solutions that would fit into your world of children's rights without taking away freedoms.

[SassyLady]

The same god? You mean the most unpleasant character in all fiction? "Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” In the words of Dawkins.

Noir - how can you make such a broadly incorrect statement..........in ALL fiction? Perhaps you should be reading non-fiction and you'll find that God is referred to as anything but what your friend Dawkins is telling you. At least he classified it as fiction.