*Jihad Jane Goes Down*

[Kathianne]

Well thank you.

I'm not some sort of PC thug, or whatever one is. I call "illegal immigrants", "illegal immigrants", not "undocumented workers" ok? lol

And I am quite conservative, yet find a problem with the concept of deporting anyone who resembles Muslims or *Horror* just rounding up 'real' Muslims.

OTOH do I think that there is only a degree of separation between Islamicists and Muslims that adhere to the Koran? Yes. Just as there is a degree of separation between being pro-life and killing abortion providers.

I condemn, as do nearly all 'pro-life' people, those that think they are acting in the name of God, though I may share their belief that abortion is murder.

Similarly the Koran calls for Sharia to be the law in Islam, thus most Muslims must agree with that premise, though that doesn't necessarily mean they would use violence to see it come to pass. They can condemn those that do so, while agreeing with the idea that Sharia is correct.

[Cap'n Chew]

Now my impression is that you and I are probably not going to agree on much, but I doubt that you are brainwashed or base your thinking on PC.

I think we'll have some agreement, you may be surprised lol.

[Cap'n Chew]

Well, then by your rationale we should not succumb to fear by maintaining an expensive military for national defense?

While we're at it, we should do away with expensive police departments instead of allowing the fear of crime to control us?

Oh I see, because I don't want America to become some sort of police state, I must hate law enforcement and the cops or something.

uh-huh -eyeroll-

As for the military, I think we can trim the fat for the sake of fiscal soundness. That goes for most of these programs.

But I would do away with the Dept of Homeland Security if I were in charge.

In case you missed it, "defending American values" has already made "drastic change" and we are "allowing fear and terrorism" to "change our course".

The problem is, the "changes" have affected the lives of ordinary American citizens much more than the muslim community's, where the terrorist threat originates.

I'm all for protecting America, and I think we need airport security, I shouldn't even need to clarify that lol; however, we cannot just uproot essential freedoms for an entire bloc of innocent, law-abiding Americans because terrorism exists. Remember what Ben Franklin said about trading liberty for temporary security.

This is what "political correctness" has to do with it!.....As a matter of fact, it has everything to do with it!

Political correctness has nothing to do with my stance on this issue.

[OldMercsRule]

Where the hell near Seattle are you, Merc?

I grew up in renton.


Oh - and as an aside - I've met Muslims who Christ better, more intimately than some "christians".

I live in Kirkland.

[OldMercsRule]

Kathianne; states:

And I am quite conservative, yet find a problem with the concept of deporting anyone who resembles Muslims or *Horror* just rounding up 'real' Muslims.

Most Cornservatives value Liberty and would have problems with rounding up Muslims as well. That said: we do have a real problem with a major world wide religion that has never modernized as other major religions have done over the last millenia.

WW1 and WW2, Korea, Vietnam and most major 20th century cornflicts were not religous wars as most of the wars in human history have been. Some would characterize Communism/Marxism as a "statist" religion, butt most Commies would not commit suicide to murder other non combatents over a belief system as Islamo/facists have done for decades now. Religious wars where soldiers murder others in the name of their God are some of the nastiest wars in human history, and non PC proceedures eventually will need to be followed to deal with this existential threat, (IMHO).

The fact that Islamic fanitics with a sixth century mind set have access to a great deal of capital from oil and modern technology, (Pakistan is a nuclear power), and information via the internet has transformed the modern world as evidenced by the 9/11/2001 attack, (we did not wake up after the firrst WTC attack financed by Saddam), and modern Liberals in the "main stream media" and now in charge of our Country, (Eric Holder et al), are doing their best to forget what some of us have learned over the last nine years.

Jimmy Carter is the POTUS to thank who let this genie out of the bottle by aiding and abetting the Islamic revolution in Persia in 1979. The population growth within Islam since 1979 has generated a great deal of young fundamental sixth century style Islamists that are not likely going to their graves without an impact on the modern world.

We all need to take some time for a non PC review of history to learn that our advisaries have a 1500 year history of extreme violence anti woman and infidel bigotry, and while some may call OBL "insane", he is actually not insane at all. He is a sixth century Muslim with wealth and connections to like minded Muslims who may number as great as 150,000,000 believers. That is what a sober review of history would teach a person with an open mind.

This is not the first time in history sixth century Islam has caused negative issues for America. Most Black African slavery, (that still exists in Muslim countries today), was non Muslim Blacks being rounded up by Muslim slave traders and sold to amoral capitilists prior to Christians in Britian and America stopping the horrible practice at a huge cost to this Country.

The Muslim pirates in the Mediterranaen caused Thomas Jefferson to dispatch American Sea power to deal with them as one of the first military adventures of our young Republic.

OTOH do I think that there is only a degree of separation between Islamicists and Muslims that adhere to the Koran? Yes.

I sure don't see it. Muslims around the world rejoiced when the WT centers were knocked down. They don't seem to like cartoons drawn depicting Mohammed either. In fact there is very little resistence to Islamists from the so called rest of the Muslims and the modernization of Islam must come from within as happened with Christianity when Gutenberg and Luther kick started the reform and modernization of the Christian faith.

Just as there is a degree of separation between being pro-life and killing abortion providers.

I think you are grossly mistaken in citing the Liberal media relative morality between modern Christians and Muslims. The modern hate and blame America Liberals cornpared the USA to the old USSR in the same fashion when we were in the Cold war. Islam and Christianity (which has modernized over the last 500 years), no longer have much in common as they may have during the Crusades. To state otherwise is a historical perversion.

I condemn, as do nearly all 'pro-life' people, those that think they are acting in the name of God, though I may share their belief that abortion is murder.

Very different issue, and not a good analogy to fundamental Islam.

Similarly the Koran calls for Sharia to be the law in Islam, thus most Muslims must agree with that premise,

Yes they surely do. Look at Europe where 50 cars burned per night by Muslims doesn't even make the news.

though that doesn't necessarily mean they would use violence to see it come to pass. They can condemn those that do so, while agreeing with the idea that Sharia is correct.

Most Muslims do not condemn and their silence and failure to modernize their brutal Religion is likely gonna lead to a big problem in the forseeable future, IMHO. Hope I'm wrong. Respectfully, JR

[Gaffer]

Gotta spread the rep around. Excellent post JR.

[Kathianne]

[QUOTE=OldMercsRule;415193]Kathianne; states:

And I am quite conservative, yet find a problem with the concept of deporting anyone who resembles Muslims or *Horror* just rounding up 'real' Muslims.

Most Cornservatives value Liberty and would have problems with rounding up Muslims as well. That said: we do have a real problem with a major world wide religion that has never modernized as other major religions have done over the last millenia. K-I do not disagree with that, on the contrary pretty much implied by my post.

WW1 and WW2, Korea, Vietnam and most major 20th century cornflicts were not religous wars as most of the wars in human history have been. Some would characterize Communism/Marxism as a "statist" religion, butt most Commies would not commit suicide to murder other non combatents over a belief system as Islamo/facists have done for decades now. Religious wars where soldiers murder others in the name of their God are some of the nastiest wars in human history, and non PC proceedures eventually will need to be followed to deal with this existential threat, (IMHO).

The fact that Islamic fanitics with a sixth century mind set have access to a great deal of capital from oil and modern technology, (Pakistan is a nuclear power), and information via the internet has transformed the modern world as evidenced by the 9/11/2001 attack, (we did not wake up after the firrst WTC attack financed by Saddam), and modern Liberals in the "main stream media" and now in charge of our Country, (Eric Holder et al), are doing their best to forget what some of us have learned over the last nine years. K-you couldn't know how many times I've said the same.

Jimmy Carter is the POTUS to thank who let this genie out of the bottle by aiding and abetting the Islamic revolution in Persia in 1979. The population growth within Islam since 1979 has generated a great deal of young fundamental sixth century style Islamists that are not likely going to their graves without an impact on the modern world.

We all need to take some time for a non PC review of history to learn that our advisaries have a 1500 year history of extreme violence anti woman and infidel bigotry, and while some may call OBL "insane", he is actually not insane at all. He is a sixth century Muslim with wealth and connections to like minded Muslims who may number as great as 150,000,000 believers. That is what a sober review of history would teach a person with an open mind.

This is not the first time in history sixth century Islam has caused negative issues for America. Most Black African slavery, (that still exists in Muslim countries today), was non Muslim Blacks being rounded up by Muslim slave traders and sold to amoral capitilists prior to Christians in Britian and America stopping the horrible practice at a huge cost to this Country.

The Muslim pirates in the Mediterranaen caused Thomas Jefferson to dispatch American Sea power to deal with them as one of the first military adventures of our young Republic.

K-again, I've written much the same over the past years.

OTOH do I think that there is only a degree of separation between Islamicists and Muslims that adhere to the Koran? Yes.

I sure don't see it. Muslims around the world rejoiced when the WT centers were knocked down. They don't seem to like cartoons drawn depicting Mohammed either. In fact there is very little resistence to Islamists from the so called rest of the Muslims and the modernization of Islam must come from within as happened with Christianity when Gutenberg and Luther kick started the reform and modernization of the Christian faith.

You just restated what I said above, that there is the difference only in violence, not beliefs by Muslims. Those that will employ violence are the Islamicists, the rest are just Muslims.

Just as there is a degree of separation between being pro-life and killing abortion providers.

I think you are grossly mistaken in citing the Liberal media huh? Where do you come up with that? relative morality between modern Christians and Muslims. The modern hate and blame America Liberals cornpared the USA to the old USSR in the same fashion when we were in the Cold war. Islam and Christianity (which has modernized over the last 500 years), no longer have much in common as they may have during the Crusades. To state otherwise is a historical perversion.

You mistake a specific analogy with a generalization, one I did not make.

I condemn, as do nearly all 'pro-life' people, those that think they are acting in the name of God, though I may share their belief that abortion is murder.

Very different issue, and not a good analogy to fundamental Islam.

Wrong, IMO. For all the pro-lifers in the US, less than a handful will kill, maim, etc. While not 'cheering', but condemning, the belief that abortion is murder is the same.

Similarly the Koran calls for Sharia to be the law in Islam, thus most Muslims must agree with that premise,

Yes they surely do. Look at Europe where 50 cars burned per night by Muslims doesn't even make the news.

Again, you could do a search for how often I posted on the 'young' doing just that in France, UK, Belgium, etc.

though that doesn't necessarily mean they would use violence to see it come to pass. They can condemn those that do so, while agreeing with the idea that Sharia is correct.

Most Muslims do not condemn and their silence and failure to modernize their brutal Religion is likely gonna lead to a big problem in the forseeable future, IMHO. Hope I'm wrong. Respectfully, JR

On your last note, I agree. Too few of the Muslims speak out against the Islamicists. That is the one area that there is little in common with my analogy, point well taken.

[Kathianne]

Gotta spread the rep around. Excellent post JR.

I agree with you, which is why I spent some time replying to JR.

If would be much better to use the quote feature though, takes too much time as the replies come, I didn't like having to turn blue, black.

[OldMercsRule]

Originally Posted by K-I
Just as there is a degree of separation between being pro-life and killing abortion providers.

Killing abortion providers is done by a very few nuts that are crazy. There are crazies in all large populations of imperfect humans and there are more Christians then there are Muslims on this planet so a few examples of nutburgers who may act out will always exist that the hard Left media always use to state their anti Christian montra and repeat it over and over. Christianity does not corndone the murder of anyone for any reason. All Christians reject murder openly and loudly, in deeds and words. I reject this statement, (as I read it), out of hand.

Muslims, however routinely murder in the name of their God and only get very mild statements against from a very few moderate Muslim entities that seems to be done for political correctness to further Islam and make it acceptable. Islam is not "the religion of peace"!!!! The majority of statements by the 1.5 Billion Muslims are either for the act of murder or silent. Read the Koran. It is accepted practice to kill infidels and Muslims that are not Muslim enough. It's been that way fer 1500 years, (openly practiced), which explains the silence and explains the statements of protest as in the Koran lying to further Islam, (which means "submission") is done all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omr
I think you are grossly mistaken in citing the Liberal media


K-I states: huh? Where do you come up with that?


Murky: relative morality between modern Christians and Muslims. The modern hate and blame America Liberals cornpared the USA to the old USSR in the same fashion when we were in the Cold war. Islam and Christianity (which has modernized over the last 500 years), no longer have much in common as they may have during the Crusades. To state otherwise is a historical perversion.

K-I states:

You mistake a specific analogy with a generalization, one I did not make.

Maybe I read the statement about a "degree of seperation" at the top of this post wrong then? Please clarify what you meant or mean, by such a statement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by k
I condemn, as do nearly all 'pro-life' people, those that think they are acting in the name of God, though I may share their belief that abortion is murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omr
Very different issue, and not a good analogy to fundamental Islam.

Wrong, IMO. For all the pro-lifers in the US, less than a handful will kill, maim, etc. While not 'cheering', but condemning, the belief that abortion is murder is the same.

No it is not.

Over the last 50 years there have only been "a handfull", (your term), of whacko's who happen to be Christian and are whacked out and murder over abortion issues that the Left wing media who hates Christians, butt fears Muslims repeat in their "moral equivelance" mantra very similar to the USSR = the USA they used to say all the time.

McVey was not much of a Christian butt was a whacked out crazy murdering freak who murdered innocents that was politically exploited by BJ Clinton and the Left main stream media to trash Christians. GRRRRRRRRR

Christians loudly abhor such acts and state so very loudly. These acts of violence commited by whacked out Christians are the exception NOT the rule. On the other hand: Muslims routinely kill mainly Muslims, butt also a fair share of infidels too, and are not condemned loudly at all by Muslims. Big difference that should be obvious.

Think about one event in the last few decades that shows the huge difference I speak of: the Iraq Iran war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k
Similarly the Koran calls for Sharia to be the law in Islam, thus most Muslims must agree with that premise,

Quote:
Originally Posted by omr
Yes they surely do. Look at Europe where 50 cars burned per night by Muslims doesn't even make the news.

Again, you could do a search for how often I posted on the 'young' doing just that in France, UK, Belgium, etc.

No argument I'm new here. I don't wanna search I will take your word for your position on the matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by k
though that doesn't necessarily mean they would use violence to see it come to pass. They can condemn those that do so, while agreeing with the idea that Sharia is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omr
Most Muslims do not condemn and their silence and failure to modernize their brutal Religion is likely gonna lead to a big problem in the forseeable future, IMHO. Hope I'm wrong. Respectfully, JR

On your last note, I agree. Too few of the Muslims speak out against the Islamicists. That is the one area that there is little in common with my analogy, point well taken.

I must have missed the meaning I thought was apparent from your analogy then.

I do sense that you and I agree on most issues. I may have miss read your statement about abortion bombers (or the freak who murdered Dr. Tiller), who are "lone wolves" and clearly not part of any Christian movement what so ever.

Christians do not murder in the name of their God or institutionalize murder like fundamentalist Islamo facists clearly do. An individual Christian who looses it goes crazy and does something horrible is not the same as the Islamo facists who follow the sixth century mind set that many Muslims do follow, and very few speak out against.

It is sure clear to me.

Respectfully, JR

[Kathianne]

Sorry, though I thought this might have been interesting, all meaning has become pretty unintelligible. Wish you could figure out posting.

[OldMercsRule]

Sorry, though I thought this might have been interesting, all meaning has become pretty unintelligible. Wish you could figure out posting.

OK, (one functional brain cell).