Christian faith: Calvinism is back

[HogTrash]

I never understood why an all powerful, all knowing entity would demand to be worshiped by a weak insignificant species like humans.

I believe that maybe this is a misconception by those who fear anything they perceive to hold power and control over their existance.

It is said that God loves us as his children...Although I may demand that my children obey me, I would never demand they worship me.

[PostmodernProphet]

And that last part - PRETTY sure I said that privately to you; Discussing what's said, without concent, via PM or Reputation comment in a PUBLIC way is a violation of board policy and can lead to banning. So - please don't do that.

this is not a good time to be pulling that shit.....

[PostmodernProphet]

No, I didn't miss anything. You, however, did.

How did this omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, but unknowable to us mere mortals being make his/her will know and to whom does (s)he make it known?

why are you asking again?.....I've already answered it, the God described in the Bible used the Bible to make himself known.....that's why I referred to him as the God described in the Bible.....because he's described there.....in it.....etc......

[SassyLady]

I never understood why an all powerful, all knowing entity would demand to be worshiped by a weak insignificant species like humans.

I believe that maybe this is a misconception by those who fear anything they perceive to hold power and control over their existance.

It is said that God loves us as his children...Although I may demand that my children obey me, I would never demand they worship me.

Must spread rep!

[Abbey Marie]

I never understood why an all powerful, all knowing entity would demand to be worshiped by a weak insignificant species like humans.

I believe that maybe this is a misconception by those who fear anything they perceive to hold power and control over their existance.

It is said that God loves us as his children...Although I may demand that my children obey me, I would never demand they worship me.

With respect, HT, it does not surprise me that we do not understand all of God's ways or reasons. I am confident that once we see Him, all will make sense and be revealed.

[darin]

What have I written which would/might cause you to think I'm invalidating the Bible?

The Bible provides a VERY LIMITED VIEW of who God is. How can that last sentence be interpreted by you as "dmp thinking parts of the bible aren't valid"?

The Bible provides us all that we need to be prepared to serve God. You keep speaking of how the Bible is not a definitive source for men to gain knowledge of the true God. The scripture completely disagrees with that notion, my friend.

I honestly can't buy that. IF that were true, folks who grew up, say, shortly after Christ's death, were NOT prepared to serve God. The ONLY SINGLE ASPECT of GOD we need to know is this: Love God and your Neighbors. That's what Christ said was the key - the most-important aspect of 'commands' from God. In fact, the only folk I can recall being chewed-out by Christ himself were those steeped in knowledge of scripture.
That's not to say study is bad - it IS to say basing one's life completely on what they read, without applying love and context, will only lead to Churchianity - Religiousity.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

First off - King James scripture is horrible.

Let's look at something more up-to-date: Here's Wycliff:

For all scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach, to reprove, to chastise, [for] to learn in rightwiseness,

17 that the man of God be perfect, learned to all good work [learned to all good works].

That said For all 'God-inspired' scripture is profitable to teach. Not "All Scripture IS God-inspired".

And here's the Key. Paul likely did NOT consider his letter to Timothy as being part of the Bible. At the time of Paul's writing, the OT was the only scripture.

As an aside - there IS a lot in the Bible which is NOT valid in terms of getting to know God better...or said another way - there's a lot of stuff God gave/told to people in a particular situation which is NOT 'valid' as proper guidance suggesting the instruction was meant for EVERY believer...do you agree with that?

2 Tim 2:15 addresses this concern and shows it to be inconsistent with the facts.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Here's that verse in English we speak:

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

That has nothing to do with use as a counter-point to the fact the Bible isn't always relevant in our daily lives. The Bible doesn't answer all our questions - such as...I dunno...how about "Is Rock-n-Roll music of the Devil!" (something from my childhood).

How can we be approved of God if we do not know Him? We can and do know the truth through the word of God as delivered in the Bible.

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

We can be approved by God by LOVING people. We know God's love based on our hearts. Based on Accepting his Love and following his lead. If one has never experienced God's love, I believe they will be unable to keep "the greatest commandment"

As another aside: Here's something just a bit down which I think you're on-top-of. You DO this and it's appreciated and noted.

22 Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26

You're discussing this - unlike everyone in this thread - reasonably and without bitterness nor bitchiness. Makes it better for everyone when people can simple TALK about things like this without wearing their hearts on their sleeves.

I never understood why an all powerful, all knowing entity would demand to be worshiped by a weak insignificant species like humans.

I believe that maybe this is a misconception by those who fear anything they perceive to hold power and control over their existance.

It is said that God loves us as his children...Although I may demand that my children obey me, I would never demand they worship me.

We are NOT insignifigant. God CREATED us special from the rest of Creation.

[bullypulpit]

why are you asking again?.....I've already answered it, the God described in the Bible used the Bible to make himself known.....that's why I referred to him as the God described in the Bible.....because he's described there.....in it.....etc......

By whom is (s)he described?

[bullypulpit]

With respect, HT, it does not surprise me that we do not understand all of God's ways or reasons. I am confident that once we see Him, all will make sense and be revealed.

By the every definition I've read , God is unavailable to human perception, and thus cannot be "seen".

[BoogyMan]

Perhaps the Bible is not enough anymore?!

Where does man get any kind of authority to go outside of the Bible?

How do you know?

And what'd Christians do BEFORE the printed Bible was around? I guess they were screwed eh?

What argument does this support? We have the printed Bible and should be thankful that we do.

Here's that verse in English we speak:

That has nothing to do with use as a counter-point to the fact the Bible isn't always relevant in our daily lives. The Bible doesn't answer all our questions - such as...I dunno...how about "Is Rock-n-Roll music of the Devil!" (something from my childhood).

The Bible is fully able to guide us though our daily problems, pointing out ones inability to read the Bible and apply it's teaching does not negate the fact that the instruction is there. The scripture I presented you with is entirely relevant.

[darin]

The Bible is fully able to guide us though our daily problems, pointing out ones inability to read the Bible and apply it's teaching does not negate the fact that the instruction is there. The scripture I presented you with is entirely relevant.

Okay - can you help me decide if going to a movie is sinful? What about listening to non-christian music? I'd also love scripture which guides me thru the decision to have a vasectomy or not.

Thanks man.

[BoogyMan]

Okay - can you help me decide if going to a movie is sinful? What about listening to non-christian music? I'd also love scripture which guides me thru the decision to have a vasectomy or not.

Thanks man.

Why would you ask me this when the point is that the Bible is what we are discussing as setting the standard for us, not me.

What is "non-Christian music?" Where in the New Testament are we ever told to listen to "Christian music" as entertainment?

What would you point to in scripture that might make you think that getting a vasectomy IS sinful, my friend? Especially when we see discussion about husband and wife not holding back from one another in the New Testament in 1 Corinthians.

[PostmodernProphet]

By whom is (s)he described?

by himself....

[darin]

Why would you ask me this when the point is that the Bible is what we are discussing as setting the standard for us, not me.

What is "non-Christian music?" Where in the New Testament are we ever told to listen to "Christian music" as entertainment?

What would you point to in scripture that might make you think that getting a vasectomy IS sinful, my friend? Especially when we see discussion about husband and wife not holding back from one another in the New Testament in 1 Corinthians.

You're making my point - The point is, the bible doesn't tell us 'everything we need to know' about being a Christian. The bible doesn't cover everything we need to know - often, frequently, we learn more about who God is based on failing, and him restoring us.

God is much bigger, more broad, and more loving than what we have in the Bible. That's my point.

[BoogyMan]

You're making my point - The point is, the bible doesn't tell us 'everything we need to know' about being a Christian. The bible doesn't cover everything we need to know - often, frequently, we learn more about who God is based on failing, and him restoring us.

God is much bigger, more broad, and more loving than what we have in the Bible. That's my point.

Actually it is you who is making my point. If I were to send you to the store to purchase a loaf of bread you would be sent with a purpose. You would not return with a box of fish sticks nor would you return with a steak, you would return with a loaf of bread if you wished to follow my instruction. You could bring white bread, wheat bread, rye bread, etc...as long as you returned with a loaf of bread.

Why would the instruction of God be exempted from common sense? When God's word says "do no murder," you are bound by a set rule that would preclude you from tossing someone off the top floor of a skyskraper as well as running them down in the road with your car. When God's word says that liars will be in hell fire, you should understand that a lie is a lie, no matter what man might say about little lies vs big lies.

I do believe that in the end you are making things much more complicated than they really are in trying to claim that the Bible doesn't represent God's will for man.

[bullypulpit]

by himself....

And who transcribed that description?