Colonel Douglas Burpee - 23 Years Of Military Service - A Muslim

[abso]

What the fuck does ONE family have to do with total amount of abuses in a country of what, about 80 million?

I'm sure there are LOTS of families without abuse towards women, but there's obviously LOTS of families that do have abuse in them!! And those numbers won't be found in many places, that's disgustingly high - hence the fact I keep repeating the FACT that Islam has a problem on its hands pertaining towards abuse of women.

Hell, ya'll pay so much attention towards the plight of women that you aren't even aware of the skyrocketing amount of abuse in your own damned country.

okay, but that fact that its spread alot more among poor people, and poor areas, means that religion isnt the main factor here, you have alot to consider, like Education, money and traditions.

my main arguments isnt about the numbers of women being abused, its about the reasons of it, you say the main reason is Islam, and i say that the main reason is traditions and background of the people.

[abso]

Abso, if I understand the end of what you just wrote, 'it's rare that one sees a man abusing his wife in Egypt.' If you can ever see it, you should speak out, since two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so.

Abuse, not just in Muslim countries, but in general, is not a public crime.

who said that two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so ????????

if i ever see a husband beating his wife, i will personally stop him, and probably will beat him, i wont wait for the police to come and stop him.

and its as i said, its very rare to see a man beating his wife, about what happens inside their homes, i dont know, but in the streest, during 21 years i have lived inside Egypt, i have never personally seen a man beating his wife, i hoped to see one so that i can beat him and teach him a lesson, but i never did saw such thing.

the witness rule you are talking about is used for proving the adultery crime, since Islam made it a requirement to prove adultery on any women that two witnesses must be provided for that crime, such rule was to prevent false accusation of a man or a woman for adultery.

abuse in egypt is a crime, beating the wife is a crime punishable by prison for 3 - 6 months if there were no serious damage, but in case of any serious injury, the man will spend more than that in jail.

[jimnyc]

So does that mean you are not willing to stand behind your statements and debate me on the subject? C'mon, I only have a few hundred current articles lined up so far....

Any attempt to compare the systematic abuse of women in islam to the US is quite laughable.

If articles aren't good enough, would you like me to post the heads of women who were beheaded? How about the whip marks from canes? Hangings on women from petty offenses? I know where there's a video of a woman stoned to death for being in public with a man other than a relative.

And it's not just nauseating enough to read/see this shit, but worse off when you see it's an accepted part of islam in many areas.

Now show me where this vile shit happens in the US on a regular basis AND is accepted by our CIVILIZED population.

So again, we on for that debate?

[jimnyc]

who said that two witnesses are needed to legally stop the husband from doing so ????????

She's referring to what I posted earlier about Morocco, one of the places you also said was moderate and not abusive towards its women:

http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Wome...occo_women.htm

Spousal violence against women is common. While physical abuse is a legal ground for divorce, a court only grants it if the woman is able to provide two witnesses to the abuse. Even medical certificates are not sufficient. Sexual assaults often go unreported because of the stigma attached to the loss of virginity. While not provided for by law, victim's families may offer rapists the opportunity to marry their victims in order to preserve the honor of the family.

[jimnyc]

And another source for my last post:

Although a woman can file for a judicial divorce if her husband physically abuses her, these cases are lengthy and complicated (Country Reports 2001 4 Mar. 2002, sec. 5). The woman must provide two witnesses to the abuse and, "if the court finds against the woman, she is returned to the husband's home" (ibid.). Furthermore, the law is reportedly lenient toward men who commit crimes against their wives (ibid.).

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/type,Q...f4be674,0.html

[jimnyc]

abuse in egypt is a crime, beating the wife is a crime punishable by prison for 3 - 6 months if there were no serious damage, but in case of any serious injury, the man will spend more than that in jail.

And yet the statistics I posted from the most reputable of sources, and even Egyptian sources, shows that the abuse of women is about as rampant as flies on a pile of fresh dog shit.

Why is there so much abuse in Egypt then, and why aren't SO many more men in prison for their actions?

[abso]

She's referring to what I posted earlier about Morocco, one of the places you also said was moderate and not abusive towards its women:

http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Wome...occo_women.htm

Spousal violence against women is common. While physical abuse is a legal ground for divorce, a court only grants it if the woman is able to provide two witnesses to the abuse. Even medical certificates are not sufficient. Sexual assaults often go unreported because of the stigma attached to the loss of virginity. While not provided for by law, victim's families may offer rapists the opportunity to marry their victims in order to preserve the honor of the family.

about divorce in egypt, its granted very easily, any woman can divorce her husband even if she has no reason at all to do so, she just asks for it, and the court grant it for her.

complicating divorce for women is stupid and inhuman, if a wife doesnt want to stay with the man anymore, then she should have the right to divorce him.

[jimnyc]

about divorce in egypt, its granted very easily, any woman can divorce her husband even if she has no reason at all to do so, she just asks for it, and the court grant it for her.

So? I didn't say they couldn't in Egypt. I very clearly pointed out in an earlier post, and my last post, that this was about Morocco - one of the countries you said wasn't radical about abuse of women like others. If that's part of their law, then that's part of their problem. But as I posted, there is widespread abuse there too.

Claim it's not islam, it's not the quran, it's not muslims - but for whatever reason it is - it miraculously happens to an overwhelming majority of muslims in islamic countries!

[abso]

And yet the statistics I posted from the most reputable of sources, and even Egyptian sources, shows that the abuse of women is about as rampant as flies on a pile of fresh dog shit.

Why is there so much abuse in Egypt then, and why aren't SO many more men in prison for their actions?

maybe because some women think that they are saving their marriage by tolerating such stupid actions, i have that have been beaten once or twice by her husband, they live in Kuwiet, she returned to Egypt and asked for divorce, by at the end, she decided not to get divorce for the sake of her daughter, and now i think that her husband treats her very well so that she doesnt insist on divorce this time.

anyway, in the future, if i have a daughter, and he husband beats her, i will beat him, and i will get her divorce, i wont tolerate any beating.

[abso]

So? I didn't say they couldn't in Egypt. I very clearly pointed out in an earlier post, and my last post, that this was about Morocco - one of the countries you said wasn't radical about abuse of women like others. If that's part of their law, then that's part of their problem. But as I posted, there is widespread abuse there too.

Claim it's not islam, it's not the quran, it's not muslims - but for whatever reason it is - it miraculously happens to an overwhelming majority of muslims in islamic countries!

i know, i was just stating that we dont have such divorce issue in egypt.

and about Morocco, if they have an abuse problem, then you must be sure that it has no relation at all with religion, they are not religious people at all, and their french language is better than their arabic language, they are more close to europe than they are to the arabian world, they may be one of the least religious Islamic countries in the world.

[jimnyc]

abso, don't you live somewhere near the deNILE river?

[Kathianne]

about divorce in egypt, its granted very easily, any woman can divorce her husband even if she has no reason at all to do so, she just asks for it, and the court grant it for her.

complicating divorce for women is stupid and inhuman, if a wife doesnt want to stay with the man anymore, then she should have the right to divorce him.

Abso, not what I'm finding. Indeed some movement, but seems for every step forward, 2 back:

http://www.google.com/search?q=women...ient=firefox-a

And on youtube, lots of info on Egyptian women rights, including from imams:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...en+rights&aq=f

[abso]

So does that mean you are not willing to stand behind your statements and debate me on the subject? C'mon, I only have a few hundred current articles lined up so far....

Any attempt to compare the systematic abuse of women in islam to the US is quite laughable.

If articles aren't good enough, would you like me to post the heads of women who were beheaded? How about the whip marks from canes? Hangings on women from petty offenses? I know where there's a video of a woman stoned to death for being in public with a man other than a relative.

And it's not just nauseating enough to read/see this shit, but worse off when you see it's an accepted part of islam in many areas.

Now show me where this vile shit happens in the US on a regular basis AND is accepted by our CIVILIZED population.

So again, we on for that debate?

cosnidering the fact that i have 3 practical exams tomorrow morning, and then 4 weeks full of exams and revisions, i dont think that i have time for a challenge, sorry.

and about the challenge, i didnt say that we dont have women abuse in egypt, i admit it exist, so there is no need for that challenge, i said that i havent seen it spread as your numbers say, and i havent ever seen it personally, but maybe its spread in the homes and i dont notice it because none i know have done it.

[abso]

Abso, not what I'm finding. Indeed some movement, but seems for every step forward, 2 back:

http://www.google.com/search?q=women...ient=firefox-a

And on youtube, lots of info on Egyptian women rights, including from imams:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...en+rights&aq=f

not what you are finding, sure of that ???

Women in Egypt Gain Broader Divorce Rights
Friday , April 14, 2000
Today, however, she and other Egyptian women are coming to court with new authority. A law that took effect last month allows them to seek a unilateral, no-questions-asked divorce, making Egypt the second country in the Arab world after Tunisia to give women divorce rights similar to those of men.
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colld...ast/divrua.htm

any woman can gain divorce in matter of days, about other things that you are posting, i wasnt talking about women rights in general, i was just talking about their divorce right, its easily granted.

[Kathianne]

not what you are finding, sure of that ???



any woman can gain divorce in matter of days, about other things that you are posting, i wasnt talking about women rights in general, i was just talking about their divorce right, its easily granted.

Have a reading comprehension problem I guess? For everyone like that, find more saying just the opposite. BTW, those 'new rules' were ballyhooed in 1999 and still are called new today.