Requirements for marriage

[Gaffer]

Mkay, can't you provide counter sources to discredit the info presented or did you just make that judgement yourself?

I made that judgment myself. I'm not interested in researching anything about queers.

[Noir]

I made that judgment myself. I'm not interested in researching anything about queers.

Reminds me of a quote by Richard Dawkins one 'what is science' when he said "Science replaces private prejudice with publicly verifiable evidence"
If you want to live in your ignorance fair enough, but that doesn't say much for you, just saying.

[jimnyc]

Mkay, let's play a game, anyone can join in.

Your Son comes to your house one day, say, 25 years old, and says 'Mum, Dad, I a) am gay b) am a pedophile c) have sex with animals.
Which of the three options would you rather. Or are they all the same in your eyes?

If it were my son?

a) - I would be more than happy to pay for the intensive psychiatric therapy he needs. (My son is now 10, and we have already discussed the issue and HE stated to me that it is wrong and HE cannot understand why people are like that)

b) - If I had evidence of him being a pedophile I would call the cops, have him arrested for his crimes & then help him get the appropriate help after he pays his debt to society.

c) - If I had evidence of him having sex with animals, he would be "persona non grata" with me until that sick act was out of his life and he has somehow repented for his actions.

Which would I "rather"? NONE! As a parent, we would see them all as a sickness, be disheartened that our son was sick, but be realistic and get him the appropriate help.

[Noir]

If it were my son?

a) - I would be more than happy to pay for the intensive psychiatric therapy he needs. (My son is now 10, and we have already discussed the issue and HE stated to me that it is wrong and HE cannot understand why people are like that)

b) - If I had evidence of him being a pedophile I would call the cops, have him arrested for his crimes & then help him get the appropriate help after he pays his debt to society.

c) - If I had evidence of him having sex with animals, he would be "persona non grata" with me until that sick act was out of his life and he has somehow repented for his actions.

Which would I "rather"? NONE! As a parent, we would see them all as a sickness, be disheartened that our son was sick, but be realistic and get him the appropriate help.

You also believe it's behavioral rather than biological I guess,

If I can ask, would there be any heterosexual acts youd pay for your son to be corrected from? Like, say he had a foot fetish, or get couldn't get off unless his patner was dressed as a furry? Or some other such oddity?

[jimnyc]

You also believe it's behavioral rather than biological I guess,

If I can ask, would there be any heterosexual acts youd pay for your son to be corrected from? Like, say he had a foot fetish, or get couldn't get off unless his patner was dressed as a furry? Or some other such oddity?

Well, first off, lets take the pedophilia and sex with animals off the table - as both of those are illegal acts in the US. No parent should condone/support illegal actions from their children.

I believe homosexuality is a sickness, and a learned sickness through behavior and/or environment. Not for a split second do I believe queers are born that way. My belief is that's an excuse to make them feel better about their decisions.

If my son had a "sexual dysfunction", of course I would help him pay to seek therapy or whatever it was that could help with his dysfunction. But his dysfunction would neither be illegal or a "sickness" that would REQUIRE intensive therapy.

BTW - You say I "think" its behavioral and not biological... I'm confident that with the thousands and thousands and thousands of doctors and scientists in the world, they would have found SOME evidence that homosexuality was biological. I find it odd that NOTHING has ever been found to support that argument.

[jimnyc]

(not directed specifically at you, Noir!)

Why is it that those in support of homosexuality tend to disappear from threads that bring up the topic of "born that way" or "biological" when you ask for scientific or medical evidence? While Noir has brought that up here, there is a long history of similar on this board and many others I belong to.

Almost every other "condition" I can think of that people claim to be "born with" is backed up scientifically, 'cept for queerism.

[Noir]

(not directed specifically at you, Noir!)

Why is it that those in support of homosexuality tend to disappear from threads that bring up the topic of "born that way" or "biological" when you ask for scientific or medical evidence? While Noir has brought that up here, there is a long history of similar on this board and many others I belong to.

Almost every other "condition" I can think of that people claim to be "born with" is backed up scientifically, 'cept for queerism.

One question I ask of people who think it can be altered with psychology treatment? (I dont think I've asked it here before) is could I be turned gay with the right psychological treatment? Seems only senseable if ghats what someone believes.

[jimnyc]

One question I ask of people who think it can be altered with psychology treatment? (I dont think I've asked it here before) is could I be turned gay with the right psychological treatment? Seems only senseable if ghats what someone believes.

I would imagine that if you went under intensive therapy by a whackjob, and his therapy was to "teach" you that being heterosexual was deviant and that being queer was normal and how you would find peace and happiness in this world - yes, I think it's possible. Possible with everyone? No. But just like other ailments and diseases, some can be cured and some cannot.

Until such time that PROOF is found that it's not an ailment and simply a biological gene or whatever they want to call it - it's nearly impossibly but to believe it is learned behavior of some sort. As the old saying goes - "We can land a man on the moon and cure forms of cancer - but not a single person can find any proof of homosexuals "being born" that way".

Noir, do you think maybe there's a concerted effort throughout the scientific and medical fields to cover up information proving what the homos believe? With ZILCH as proof, why would you think they are born this way?

[Missileman]

(not directed specifically at you, Noir!)

Why is it that those in support of homosexuality tend to disappear from threads that bring up the topic of "born that way" or "biological" when you ask for scientific or medical evidence? While Noir has brought that up here, there is a long history of similar on this board and many others I belong to.

Almost every other "condition" I can think of that people claim to be "born with" is backed up scientifically, 'cept for queerism.

We don't know which gene screwed up and caused a baby to be born blind, so obviously it is choosing not to see.

[jimnyc]

We don't know which gene screwed up and caused a baby to be born blind, so obviously it is choosing not to see.

Show me JUST ONE incident where a human being was/is born blind and the doctors/scientists cannot tell them or their parents why. JUST ONE.

As MFM liked to say - "I'll wait".

** Edit **

Here's a starting point for you:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...s=0&fr2=rs-top

[Missileman]

Show me JUST ONE incident where a human being was/is born blind and the doctors/scientists cannot tell them or their parents why. JUST ONE.

As MFM liked to say - "I'll wait".

** Edit **

Here's a starting point for you:

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=...s=0&fr2=rs-top

Here's an ending point for you:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/birthdefects.html

For most birth defects, the cause is unknown.

And yet they exist.

[jimnyc]

Here's an ending point for you:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/birthdefects.html



And yet they exist.

Wrong, and not what I asked for. In those cases they know exactly what the defect is and where - they just don't know HOW they got the defect. In the case of queers, there is no known "defect" or "gene" or ANYTHING biological.

And back to your original point, if a baby is born blind, they will know WHY, they just might not know how the defect came to be. In other words, the biological aspect of the defect they are born with is known.

Feel free to try again though.

[Missileman]

Wrong, and not what I asked for. In those cases they know exactly what the defect is and where - they just don't know HOW they got the defect. In the case of queers, there is no known "defect" or "gene" or ANYTHING biological.

And back to your original point, if a baby is born blind, they will know WHY, they just might not know how the defect came to be. In other words, the biological aspect of the defect they are born with is known.

Feel free to try again though.

It takes a special type of logic to conclude that being sexually attracted to the same gender is NOT a defect.

[jimnyc]

It takes a special type of logic to conclude that being sexually attracted to the same gender is NOT a defect.

Some would say the same about drug addicts, alcoholics, murderers... Seems like they are "defective", but they sure as shit weren't born that way, they learned their behaviors and acted on impulse.

Again, and open to EVERYONE, I'd be happy to see the proof that any of the thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of doctors and scientists have come up with to show that queers are "born that way". If its a defect as you say, MM, then surely this defect can be identified. That's logic 101.

[Palin Rider]

Until such time that PROOF is found that it's not an ailment and simply a biological gene or whatever they want to call it - it's nearly impossibly but to believe it is learned behavior of some sort.

That's where your logic breaks down. Do you have any control over who you're attracted to? Of course not.

That doesn't necessarily mean you were born to become attracted to certain types of people, but it definitely shows that it's not "learned" behavior.