Proof That Waterboarding Does Work

[Noir]

No, I am talking about the three terrorist SOB's who were waterboarded.

Unlike the terrorists prisoners, they did not loose their head over being waterboarded

Last I checked KSM is alive and well - and I believe he has put on a few pounds while in prison at club GITMO

Well I know hitechens still has nightmares about the drowning, I haven't heard of ksm's mental state, maybe you could enlighten me?

Every report or interview I have ever seen with anyone who has been water boarded has said it was torture. Can you provide sources of people who have been water boarded who say it isn't torture? Because I'm mire inclined to believe first hand accounts.

[red states rule]

Well I know hitechens still has nightmares about the drowning, I haven't heard of ksm's mental state, maybe you could enlighten me?

Every report or interview I have ever seen with anyone who has been water boarded has said it was torture. Can you provide sources of people who have been water boarded who say it isn't torture? Because I'm mire inclined to believe first hand accounts.

You have to ask about the mental state of a terrorist who used a hacksaw and cut the head off a helpless man and gleefully showed it happening on the internet?

Again Noir, how is it torture? When I here the world torture, I think of thumb screws, the rack, buring the body with a blowtorch, or things along that line

How is squirting a little water down the nose of three terrorists to try and stop attacks such a bad thing in your mind?

[Noir]

You have to ask about the mental state of a terrorist who used a hacksaw and cut the head off a helpless man and gleefully showed it happening on the internet?

Again Noir, how is it torture? When I here the world torture, I think of thumb screws, the rack, buring the body with a blowtorch, or things along that line

How is squirting a little water down the nose of three terrorists to try and stop attacks such a bad thing in your mind?

I think you should watch this video if you have not already seen it. Mancow, you may know, is a Conservitive radio talkshow guy, who said exactly the kind of stuff you are and agreed to be water boarded to prove it was not torture, here is how it went.

[red states rule]

I think you should watch this video if you have not already seen it. Mancow, you may know, is a Conservitive radio talkshow guy, who said exactly the kind of stuff you are and agreed to be water boarded to prove it was not torture, here is how it went.

So far you are ducking my direct questions Noir. Which I am use to when debating those on the left

Care to answer the two questions I asked you in my previous post?

[Noir]

So far you are ducking my direct questions Noir. Which I am use to when debating those on the left

Care to answer the two questions I asked you in my previous post?

Once you accept some torture it's a slippery slop, ergo I accept no torture. Answer your questions?

Now maybe you can answer why no one that has been water boarded that I can find says it's not torture. Even a conservative, who went in with a clear and stated bias to prove it was not torture changed his mind TOTALY in SIX SECONDS does that not tell you something?

[red states rule]

Once you accept some torture it's a slippery slop, ergo I accept no torture. Answer your questions?

Now maybe you can answer why no one that has been water boarded that I can find says it's not torture. Even a conservative, who went in with a clear and stated bias to prove it was not torture changed his mind TOTALY in SIX SECONDS does that not tell you something?

Not even close Noir

Again, here are the two questions I asked: You have to ask about the mental state of a terrorist who used a hacksaw and cut the head off a helpless man and gleefully showed it happening on the internet?

Again Noir, how is it torture? When I here the world torture, I think of thumb screws, the rack, buring the body with a blowtorch, or things along that line

I never said waterboaring was a pleasant experience Noir. It was used on THREE terrorists to obtain valuable information and to save innocent lives

But unlike torture, it has no lasting effects.

Now we have the CIA director admitting waterboarding obtained info that led to OBL

http://freedomslighthouse.net/2011/0...en-video-5311/


and listen to a well known liberal whines over the US shooting an "unarmed man"

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[red states rule]

Yes, killing the most wanted man on the planet is saddening. Toppling the leader of a terrorist group that killed over 3,000 of our citizens disappoints me to no end. It all brings a tear to my eye.

Cry a river as high up the ladder you can, but to be disappointed right now because Bin Laden is dead, and you know it was likely a result of waterboarding, is what is saddening and disappointing to me. I personally would have waterboarded 50,000 terrorists if it meant the death of this piece of shit.

Jim, the bottom line is Bush's policies led to this great event. The Dems and liberal media have blamed Bush for nearly everything that has happened since Obama took office

Yet that will not happen in this instance

[Noir]

Not even close Noir

Again, here are the two questions I asked: You have to ask about the mental state of a terrorist who used a hacksaw and cut the head off a helpless man and gleefully showed it happening on the internet?

Again Noir, how is it torture? When I here the world torture, I think of thumb screws, the rack, buring the body with a blowtorch, or things along that line

I never said waterboaring was a pleasant experience Noir. It was used on THREE terrorists to obtain valuable information and to save innocent lives

But unlike torture, it has no lasting effects.*

Now we have the CIA director admitting waterboarding obtained info that led to OBL

http://freedomslighthouse.net/2011/0...en-video-5311/


and listen to a well known liberal whines over the US shooting an "unarmed man"

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*
I say it's torture because EVERYONEthat I can find on the Internet who has been water bordered has said it was torture to them after seconds.*

Here are some quotes from people who have tried it.*

"I wanted to prove it wasn't torture. They cut off our heads, we put water on their face...I got voted to do this but I really thought 'I'm going to laugh this off...It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke. It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."
— Erich “Mancow” Muller - Conservative talk show host

"It sounded like when we are really in pain, choking in water. The sound was screaming, from the throat. I suppose they could not bear the torture. Whenever we heard the noises we were really shocked and scared. We thought one day they will do the same thing to us."
Is it torture?
"Yes, it is severe torture. We could try it and see how we would react if we are choking under water for just two minutes. It is very serious."
— Van Nath - Survivor recalls horrors of Cambodia genocide

"The rag was soaked rapidly. Water flowed everywhere: in my mouth, in my nose, all over my face. But for a while I could still breathe in some small gulps of air. I tried, by contracting my throat, to take in as little water as possible and to resist suffocation by keeping air in my lungs for as long as I could. But I couldn't hold on for more than a few moments. I had the impression of drowning, and a terrible agony, that of death itself, took possession of me. In spite of myself, all the muscles of my body struggled uselessly to save me from suffocation."
— Henri Alleg, quoted in 'Waterboarding is torture - I did it myself, says US advisor'

"Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word."
— Malcom Nance, Waterboarding is Torture… Period

"They would lash me to a stretcher then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about two gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness."
"They laid me out on a stretcher and strapped me on. The stretcher was then stood on end with my head almost touching the floor and my feet in the air. . . . They then began pouring water over my face and at times it was almost impossible for me to breathe without sucking in water."
— testimony of two Americans imprisoned by Japanese soldiers.

I apply the Abraham Lincoln test for moral casuistry: “If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.” Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture."
— Christopher Hitchens, "Believe Me, It’s Torture"

Testimonies from waterboarding.org

Now PLEASE rsr, find me a website full of journalists, commentators and former marines from all sides of the political spectrum who have been waterboarded and said it was not torture. Because I can't find one such quote.*

[jimnyc]

Now PLEASE rsr, find me a website full of journalists, commentators and former marines from all sides of the political spectrum who have been waterboarded and said it was not torture. Because I can't find one such quote.*

I guess you didn't search very hard on THIS very website. Mr. P is former military and has endured waterboarding, and he has stated it is not torture. Maybe he'll chime in if and when he sees this thread.

[Noir]

I guess you didn't search very hard on THIS very website. Mr. P is former military and has endured waterboarding, and he has stated it is not torture. Maybe he'll chime in if and when he sees this thread.

Well he needs to go national with this revelation because it is nowhere on the Internet, but there are plenty of testimonies of marines who have said it is.

The real clunker for me is that mancow bloke. When someone goes in saying there aim us to prove it is not torture, and after six seconds says they don't want to admit it but it's absolutely torture, then I take that man at his word.

[jimnyc]

Well he needs to go national with this revelation because it is nowhere on the Internet, but there are plenty of testimonies of marines who have said it is.

The real clunker for me is that mancow bloke. When someone goes in saying there aim us to prove it is not torture, and after six seconds says they don't want to admit it but it's absolutely torture, then I take that man at his word.

But you wouldn't take Mr. P at his word? I'm guessing that "torture" is what the current "prisoner" thinks it is, and not what the masses think. But I do know that waterboarding does not inflict the pain needed to define torture, nor does it leave long term effects.

And I don't see this method being part of a "slippery slope". It was used 3 times, and the one that counted was on one of the admitted masterminds of 9/11. I could see if the person captured was possibly innocent, but if it's a known terrorist, then I say do what is necessary to get information from the scumbag.

[Noir]

But you wouldn't take Mr. P at his word? I'm guessing that "torture" is what the current "prisoner" thinks it is, and not what the masses think. But I do know that waterboarding does not inflict the pain needed to define torture, nor does it leave long term effects.

And I don't see this method being part of a "slippery slope". It was used 3 times, and the one that counted was on one of the admitted masterminds of 9/11. I could see if the person captured was possibly innocent, but if it's a known terrorist, then I say do what is necessary to get information from the scumbag.

Waterboarding is controlled drowning. The number of accounts that you can read that all say the same thing, that all you can feel is death, how could that not be torture?

And it is a slippery slop, once you think you have a guy that knows say about a bombing, what would you not do to get the information? You clearly say "do what is nessessery" which I can see your justification for if afterwards it turns out he did have the info. But if he didn't, what then? Would you ever stop? Or would you torture that man to death?

[jimnyc]

Waterboarding is controlled drowning. The number of accounts that you can read that all say the same thing, that all you can feel is death, how could that not be torture?

And it is a slippery slop, once you think you have a guy that knows say about a bombing, what would you not do to get the information? You clearly say "do what is nessessery" which I can see your justification for if afterwards it turns out he did have the info. But if he didn't, what then? Would you ever stop? Or would you torture that man to death?

If it's a known terrorist, I couldn't possibly care less what the effects were on him or what the outcome was. It "could" save lives and that's all that matters to me. If it's a known terrorist, and it doesn't pan out, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

[Noir]

If it's a known terrorist, I couldn't possibly care less what the effects were on him or what the outcome was. It "could" save lives and that's all that matters to me. If it's a known terrorist, and it doesn't pan out, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

Great. Now just leave in to your government to define who they believe to be terrorrists, and sleep well.

[fj1200]

I'm assuming you have seen Chrisopher Hitchens being water boarded, were afterwards he made clear that if that isn't torture then nothing is. (and he's not exaclty known fro his soft touch when it comes to terrorists)

I'm shocked and I'm sure that he did not hold that view BEFORE his experience. Did he elect to have his fingernails pulled out too?