Why Can't the Pro-Abortionists be Honest?

[LuvRPgrl]

I was reading my post and thinking about how less thorough my posts were back then... there are many gaps in that story.

I called the hospital later and told them my story, and I never heard back from them (which wasn't expected) but I did hear a few years later that the doctor that tried to bully us into aborting Ricky was fired, and my complaint was one of the reasons for doing so.

I was enraged when he put his hand up to me and told me it wasn't my decision to make. The hell it wasn't! As soon as he saw my gut instinct was "NO", he tried to shut me down and convince Misty. When he pulled that, I had no other recourse but to get aggressive, and he left the room right about then.

Incompetent bastard. I'd still love to punch him in the face. Hard.

Both of us agonized over that horrible decision that had been thrust upon us for 3 weeks. Both of us called every member of our families and grilled them, trying to find out where the genetic disorder came from and to get info on it, only to find out later that there was no genetic disorder - only people using new technology and not understanding what it was telling them.

I cringe to think of how many babies were killed due to that doctor's incompetence. My son would have been one of them if I hadn't had a violent gut reaction to protect him - if I hadn't been there, she would have followed his advice to abort.

I actually had a feeling about that
Calling corp about bad management often works. I once got an entire staff replaced by complaining.

U do need to let go of that anger now though. Just think, if he hadn't done that, you probablly wouldn't have appreciated your son's health as much as you did/do now.

Romans:"God uses ALL things for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose"

[fj1200]

IMO, no. But even with that answer, I'd still restrict abortions to the 1st trimester with exceptions for mother's health and catastrophic defect.

I guess I still don't understand the arbitrary nature of your position. Life has been created and at some point he/she will be granted rights and protections.

What's your position on abortion to save the mother's life?

I'm against using exceptions to create the rule; To use rape/incest/life of the mother arguments to ensure that convenience can rule the day is wrong. I don't mind the exceptions but if those exceptions are so minuscule then maybe they don't need to exist at all.

I posted the following in 2003 on USMB back in the day. Today, my son is a 14 year old boy...

Amazing story.

[NightTrain]

I actually had a feeling about that
Calling corp about bad management often works. I once got an entire staff replaced by complaining.

U do need to let go of that anger now though. Just think, if he hadn't done that, you probablly wouldn't have appreciated your son's health as much as you did/do now.

Romans:"God uses ALL things for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose"

That is the kind of righteous anger that needs to be held on to. When I hear about people casually talking about killing their offspring, I get a very bad attitude.

Just from my experience I know there have been millions of babies killed just due to incompetence, just here in America.

It is a sick, twisted thing that someone would willingly allow their child to be killed on every level.

I understand that there are certain circumstances like incest and rape, which is the pillar of pro-killer debate, which needs to be discussed and I don't have the answer to that.

But killing your child is criminal, outside of incest and rape.

[Abbey Marie]

Every day, hundreds of women aged 34+ are pushed into getting amniocentesis "in case" their baby has Down's syndrome, etc.

The dirty secrets are:
1. The risks from the amnio exceed the chances of getting the defect.
2. By their own admission, IF YOU ASK, there is little if anything the doctors can do by knowing ahead of time. The entire reason for the test is to abort if you don't like the results.

[Missileman]

I guess I still don't understand the arbitrary nature of your position. Life has been created and at some point he/she will be granted rights and protections.



I'm against using exceptions to create the rule; To use rape/incest/life of the mother arguments to ensure that convenience can rule the day is wrong. I don't mind the exceptions but if those exceptions are so minuscule then maybe they don't need to exist at all.

I asked, because either the unborn has a right to live or it doesn't. If it does, then the mother's right to life is at best, equal to that of the unborn. Tie goes to? Neither? Let them both die needlessly?

If there are exceptions to the rule, maybe the rule isn't as good as it needs to be.

[NightTrain]

I asked, because either the unborn has a right to live or it doesn't. If it does, then the mother's right to life is at best, equal to that of the unborn. Tie goes to? Neither? Let them both die needlessly?

If there are exceptions to the rule, maybe the rule isn't as good as it needs to be.

The baby has a right to live; of course it does.

But if both lives are in danger and one life has to be chosen over the other, of course the decision is with the mother... when has that ever been different?

[Missileman]

The baby has a right to live; of course it does.

But if both lives are in danger and one life has to be chosen over the other, of course the decision is with the mother... when has that ever been different?

I'm playing devil's advocate, and no I'm not being punny. It is however evidence that the abortion issue isn't as black and white as some suggest. Abortion as a matter of necessity can be subjective also.

[NightTrain]

I'm playing devil's advocate, and no I'm not being punny. It is however evidence that the abortion issue isn't as black and white as some suggest. Abortion as a matter of necessity can be subjective also.

It is black and white.

Unless there is a legitimate medical need, an abortion should not be performed. Period.

If the child is unwanted by the mother / father, the child should go to a state run orphanage.

Ideal? Nope.

But it's a hell of a lot better than a coat hanger at 2 months, and I'd wager that both you and I would rather give the Orphanage a whirl than the wire.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm playing devil's advocate, and no I'm not being punny. It is however evidence that the abortion issue isn't as black and white as some suggest. Abortion as a matter of necessity can be subjective also.

I don't think anyone is saying it is black and white. Very little we must decide is. That doesn't mean lines cannot be drawn.

And if we draw that line at the life of the mother, rape and incest, very, very few abortions will be performed. And that loss of income will not be tolerated by the abortion industry. It's blood money in the most real sense of the phrase.

[J.T]

Every day, hundreds of women aged 34+ are pushed into getting amniocentesis "in case" their baby has Down's syndrome, etc.

The dirty secrets are:
1. The risks from the amnio exceed the chances of getting the defect.

Source?

In facilities where amniocentesis is performed regularly, the rates are closer to 1 in 400

.25%?

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pre...ocentesis.html

15-20% of recognized pregnancies result in miscarriage.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/articl...erview#showall

The incidence of Down syndrome is estimated at one per 800 to one per 1000 births

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome#Epidemiology

So if we ignore the frequency of miscarriage overall, the procedure does seem to cause a rate of miscarriage higher than the rate of Down's. However, two points:
-Is there any reliable information regarding what the rate of Down's truly is/would be if we counted those aborted upon its discovery?
-.25% is still very small and far below what would be considered a significant risk.

By their own admission, IF YOU ASK, there is little if anything the doctors can do by knowing ahead of time. The entire reason for the test is to abort if you don't like the results.

How is that a 'dirty secret'? Hell, how is it even a secret?

[gabosaurus]

So much lack of common sense in this thread.

[Missileman]

I don't think anyone is saying it is black and white. Very little we must decide is. That doesn't mean lines cannot be drawn.

And if we draw that line at the life of the mother, rape and incest, very, very few abortions will be performed. And that loss of income will not be tolerated by the abortion industry. It's blood money in the most real sense of the phrase.

You're willing to allow murder(your word) based on your prerequisites. In for a penny, in for a pound.

[gabosaurus]

You're willing to allow murder(your word) based on your prerequisites. In for a penny, in for a pound.

How about if we allow everyone to own guns, but you have to agree to never shoot anyone? Wouldn't that prevent a lot of murders?

If you are not a woman, and you have no female children, obviously you will never understand what is involved in all this.
But that the ConRep male for you. It's OK to kill anyone, as long as they have been born first.

[NightTrain]

So much lack of common sense in this thread.

That's why you are here.

To put a shining, dazzling, blinding bit of brilliance on this pile of manure.




































...oh wait...

[Abbey Marie]

You're willing to allow murder(your word) based on your prerequisites. In for a penny, in for a pound.

No, exactly not "in for a penny, in for a pound". Not even close- those are your words and interpretation. If you think saving a mother's life is all the same as an abortion for convenience, I can't help you.