Of the Bill of Rights?

[LuvRPgrl]

All terrorists need to die, and deserve to die, no matter where they live. All terrorists deserve no rights, none whatsoever. Whether in USA, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan... they are on the "battlefield" in the war on terror/terrorists, and get treated as the enemy. You give up your "constitutional rights" the minute you become a traitor and terrorist against the USA and her citizens. Arguing for the protection of a terrorist is completely asinine. With that "logic", an American citizen can go on a killing spree, kill thousands of innocent citizens in a terror attack, move out ofA the country and have the knowledge that the people hunting you down will be gentle and only trying to capture you and honor your "rights".

Problem with most of the 'LAW AND ORDER" SUPPORT on this, is you are assuming guilty until proven innocent.

It certainly give the govt alot of power to be able to kill someone just because "THEY DEEM HIM A TERRORIST". I mean, they can go and assisnate pretty much whomever they want and just declare them a terrorist or enemy of the state. The way our country is going, the "enemies of the state" will soon be the only true patriots we will have anymore.

[LuvRPgrl]

I agree AND disagree. A male pedophile that preys on males is a homosexual also. I don't go in for that if you're one you can't be the other.

At the same time, I also do not agree that homosexuality necessarily leads to pedophilia and/or incest.

The "slippery slope" argument however IS a valid one. Our morals as a society have gone to shit as the left has pushed further and further left with all their blather and no one standing up to them without getting horsewhipped by the media.

Not to mention that Tammy Bruce, former LA president of NOW, and a lesbian, says that most homos have their first sexual encounter as under age teens.
So that means that many homos are preying on young teens and converting them, and I know this for a fact because someone tried it on me, TRIED, but many guys that are my age at that timew, are very suseptable

[jimnyc]

Problem with most of the 'LAW AND ORDER" SUPPORT on this, is you are assuming guilty until proven innocent.

It certainly give the govt alot of power to be able to kill someone just because "THEY DEEM HIM A TERRORIST". I mean, they can go and assisnate pretty much whomever they want and just declare them a terrorist or enemy of the state. The way our country is going, the "enemies of the state" will soon be the only true patriots we will have anymore.

I understand that the judicial system works differently, but his own videotapes takes away ANY chance of his innocence, IMO. These terrorists like to makes these videos and brag to the world about prior acts and about how they would like to kill "infidels" going forward. While most would say this is good evidence to be used in a trial - I think it's good enough evidence to send a drone above his convoy and blow him into a few thousand pieces.

[Gunny]

Not to mention that Tammy Bruce, former LA president of NOW, and a lesbian, says that most homos have their first sexual encounter as under age teens.
So that means that many homos are preying on young teens and converting them, and I know this for a fact because someone tried it on me, TRIED, but many guys that are my age at that timew, are very suseptable

Could be. the fact remains .... homo's tried to deny pedophiles can be homo's. I call bullshit. One can be a homo as well as a pedophile.

[Jess]

Not to mention that Tammy Bruce, former LA president of NOW, and a lesbian, says that most homos have their first sexual encounter as under age teens.
So that means that many homos are preying on young teens and converting them, and I know this for a fact because someone tried it on me, TRIED, but many guys that are my age at that timew, are very suseptable

Whether or not a person is gay or straight aside, don't most people (especially in today's society) have their first sexual encounter when they are underage?

Gay people are generally just that - gay. Homosexuals. Whatever. Gay men don't want little boys, they want hot men. Heck, the straight men I know are much more likely to have sex with an underage girl than the gay men I know are likely to go after underage boys.

[Gunny]

Whether or not a person is gay or straight aside, don't most people (especially in today's society) have their first sexual encounter when they are underage?

Gay people are generally just that - gay. Homosexuals. Whatever. Gay men don't want little boys, they want hot men. Heck, the straight men I know are much more likely to have sex with an underage girl than the gay men I know are likely to go after underage boys.

You're wrong and I am NOT sleeping on the couch.

[Jess]

You're wrong and I am NOT sleeping on the couch.

Am not.

And I'll sleep on the couch - that tv has cable.

[LuvRPgrl]

Whether or not a person is gay or straight aside, don't most people (especially in today's society) have their first sexual encounter when they are underage?

Gay people are generally just that - gay. Homosexuals. Whatever. Gay men don't want little boys, they want hot men. Heck, the straight men I know are much more likely to have sex with an underage girl than the gay men I know are likely to go after underage boys.

And usually they are both underage, whereas with the homosexuals, its more common for an older person who preys on younger kids.

[revelarts]

We fabricated drug charges against innocent people to meet arrest quotas, former detective testifies

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz1b3dDPESG


A former NYPD narcotics detective snared in a corruption scandal testified it was common practice to fabricate drug charges against innocent people to meet arrest quotas.
The bombshell testimony from Stephen Anderson is the first public account of the twisted culture behind the false arrests in the Brooklyn South and Queens narc squads, which led to the arrests of eight cops and a massive shakeup.
Anderson, testifying under a cooperation agreement with prosecutors, was busted for planting cocaine, a practice known as "flaking," on four men in a Queens bar in 2008 to help out fellow cop Henry Tavarez, whose buy-and-bust activity had been low.
"Tavarez was ... was worried about getting sent back [to patrol] and, you know, the supervisors getting on his case," he recounted at the corruption trial of Brooklyn South narcotics Detective Jason Arbeeny.
"I had decided to give him [Tavarez] the drugs to help him out so that he could say he had a buy," Anderson testified last week in Brooklyn Supreme Court.
He made clear he wasn't about to pass off the two legit arrests he had made in the bar to Tavarez.
"As a detective, you still have a number to reach while you are in the narcotics division," he said.
NYPD officials did not respond to a request for comment.
Anderson worked in the Queens and Brooklyn South narcotics squads and was called to the stand at Arbeeny's bench trial to show the illegal conduct wasn't limited to a single squad.
"Did you observe with some frequency this ... practice which is taking someone who was seemingly not guilty of a crime and laying the drugs on them?" Justice Gustin Reichbach asked Anderson.
"Yes, multiple times," he replied.
The judge pressed Anderson on whether he ever gave a thought to the damage he was inflicting on the innocent.
"It was something I was seeing a lot of, whether it was from supervisors or undercovers and even investigators," he said.
"It's almost like you have no emotion with it, that they attach the bodies to it, they're going to be out of jail tomorrow anyway; nothing is going to happen to them anyway."
The city paid $300,000 to settle a false arrest suit by Jose Colon and his brother Maximo, who were falsely arrested by Anderson and Tavarez. A surveillance tape inside the bar showed they had been framed.
A federal judge presiding over the suit said the NYPD's plagued by "widespread falsification" by arresting officers.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz1b3gHWdIb

------------------------------------
Across the board this is just bad news but it just insult to injury when you speculate on the the probably predominate ages, income level and races of the people falsely accused

[revelarts]

...A corrupt ex-undercover cop says NYPD supervisors paid detectives extra overtime for hard-drug busts, creating a covert reward system for cocaine and heroin arrests.

Undercovers taking down smack or crack suspects routinely got two or three hours of overtime as payback, ex-cop Stephen Anderson testified in a Brooklyn courtroom.
"So giving you overtime for a crack cocaine arrest is a reward for the nature of the crime ... would that be a fair statement?" asked Justice Gustin Reichbach.

"Yes, that's fair to say," Anderson testified last week at the corruption trial of Brooklyn South narcotics Detective Jason Arbeeny.
The defendant is accused of conspiring with others in "flaking" suspects - cop talk for planting cocaine on innocent victims.
Although Anderson didn't say so directly, the system provided rogue cops with a financial incentive to fabricate cocaine and heroin busts....

The OT had nothing to do with the amount of casework, he said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz1b3mSTLLO

Police work and a capitalistic reward system shouldn't really mix much.

[revelarts]

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[revelarts]

While the President can Kill Americans as long as it's recommended by a secret panel, and can sell guns to drug cartels the DOJ wants to jail or fine people for Uploading Youtube videos.

...The erosion of our freedoms continues as the Department of Justice is criminalizing activities that it deems may be detrimental to public security. Among those activities are “lying on the Internet” and “uploading videos that break YouTube’s terms of service,” as well as any other action determined to “contravene a website’s usage policy.” “In a statement obtained by CNET that’s scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, the Justice Department argues that it must be able to prosecute violations of Web sites’ often-ignored, always-unintelligible “terms of service” policies,” writes Declan McCullagh.
The DOJ has expanded its Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) to indicate that an agreement with a website’s terms of service would be identical to signing a contract with an employer, and as such, any such violation should provoke the same sort of punishment.
Passed by Congress in 1986, CFAA was originally intended to stop hackers from breaking into computer systems and to address all federal computer-related offenses. The Department of Justice now seeks to greatly expand the use of CFAA to target a number of different “violations.”...

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...youtube-videos
Im sure the secret panel thinks that's Ok, so It's OK, as long as they get those law breaking terms of service breakers, the gov't knows how to keep us safe.

[fj1200]

Passed by Congress in 1986, CFAA was originally intended to stop hackers from breaking into computer systems and to address all federal computer-related offenses. The Department of Justice now seeks to greatly expand the use of CFAA to target a number of different “violations.”...

Well that's pretty sweet! If original intent can't be trusted since 1986, 1789 has no chance.

[Gunny]

Actually, marriage was considered an inherent right as of the Constitution. And by what you're saying, we might as well throw regular old marriage out the window, cause that ends badly 2/3 of the time these days. You really want to go there, we can go there, but there won't be anything left to do with your life by the time we're. I can easily use your logic there as a means to illegalize drinking, smoking, guns, marriage, sex, driving, flying, the list goes on and on.

the government has NO right to tell us how to live our lives. None at all, unless you can show it to me in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

Yes, the bible does mention incest back in Genesis, and if we want really want to go down that road, I can oblige again. Everyone on this forum would be "put to death" before we hit the end (if you've ever eaten meat on a Friday or cursed at your parents, prepare to die). Actually, if you want to go biblical, you have no right judge, or make a call on what God would think or say on the matter, both of those were denied directly Jesus.

Now, as to a point, you are telling me that to consenting women having sex with each other is exactly the same as raping a child? Those are one and the same? This seems to be your claim.

The attempts to put homosexuality up there with bestiality, incest, and pedophilia is the most debase sort of argument, one used to paint them as vile creatures as opposed to human beings.

I was thinking the same thing with the exception that I disagree with your assumption that marriage is an inherent Right of the Constitution.

[revelarts]

FYI
Obama riding Bush train to removing all civil liberties ...for your safety

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/12/...istration.html

20 Examples of the Obama Administration Assault on Domestic Civil Liberties

December 2, 2011

By Bill Quigley - Activist Post
..Here are twenty examples of serious assaults on the domestic rights to
freedom of speech,
freedom of assembly,
freedom of association,
the right to privacy,
the right to a fair trial,
freedom of religion,
and freedom of conscience
that have occurred since the Obama administration has assumed power. Consider these and then decide if there is any fundamental difference between the Bush presidency and the Obama presidency in the area of domestic civil liberties....

Patriot Act

On May 27, 2011, President Obama, over widespread bipartisan objections, approved a Congressional four year extension of controversial parts of the Patriot Act that were set to expire. In March of 2010, Obama signed a similar extension of the Patriot Act for one year. These provisions allow the government, with permission from a special secret court, to seize records without the owner’s knowledge, conduct secret surveillance of suspicious people who have no known ties to terrorist groups and to obtain secret roving wiretaps on people.

Criminalization of Dissent and Militarization of the Police
...Protest police sport ninja turtle-like outfits and are accompanied by helicopters, special tanks, and even sound blasting vehicles first used in Iraq. Wireless fingerprint scanners first used by troops in Iraq are now being utilized by local police departments to check motorists. Facial recognition software introduced in war zones is now being used in Arizona and other jurisdictions. Drones just like the ones used in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan are being used along the Mexican and Canadian borders. These activities continue to expand under the Obama administration.

Wiretaps
Wiretaps for oral, electronic or wire communications, approved by federal and state courts, are at an all-time high. Wiretaps in year 2010 were up 34% from 2009, according to the Administrative Office of the US Courts.

Criminalization of Speech
Muslims in the US have been targeted by the Obama Department of Justice for inflammatory things they said or published on the internet. First Amendment protection of freedom of speech, most recently stated in a 1969 Supreme Court decision, Brandenberg v Ohio, says the government cannot punish inflammatory speech, even if it advocates violence unless it is likely to incite or produce such action. A Pakistani resident legally living in the US was indicted by the DOJ in September 2011 for uploading a video on YouTube. The DOJ said the video was supportive of terrorists even though nothing on the video called for violence. ...

Domestic Government Spying on Muslim Communities
In activities that offend freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and several other laws, the NYPD and the CIA have partnered to conduct intelligence operations against Muslim communities in New York and elsewhere. The CIA, which is prohibited from spying on Americans, works with the police on “human mapping”, commonly known as racial and religious profiling to spy on the Muslim community. Under the Obama administration, the Associated Press reported in August 2011, informants known as “mosque crawlers,” monitor sermons, bookstores and cafes.

Top Secret America
In July 2010, the Washington Post released “Top Secret America,” a series of articles detailing the results of a two year investigation into the rapidly expanding world of homeland security, intelligence and counter-terrorism. It found 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies work on counterterrorism, homeland security and intelligence at about 10,000 locations across the US. Every single day, the National Security Agency intercepts and stores more than 1.7 billion emails, phone calls and other types of communications. The FBI has a secret database named Guardian that contains reports of suspicious activities filed from federal, state and local law enforcement. According to the Washington Post the FBI Guardian database contained 161,948 files as of December 2009. From that database there have been 103 full investigations and at least five arrests the FBI reported. The Obama administration has done nothing to cut back on the secrecy.

Other Domestic Spying
There are at least 72 fusion centers across the US which collect local domestic police information and merge it into multi-jurisdictional intelligence centers, according to recent report by the ACLU. These centers share information from federal, state and local law enforcement and some private companies to secretly spy on Americans. These all continue to grow and flourish under the Obama administration.

Abusive FBI Intelligence Operations
The Electronic Frontier Foundation documented thousands of violations of the law by FBI intelligence operations from 2001 to 2008 and estimate that there are over 4000 such violations each year. President Obama issued an executive order to strengthen the Intelligence Oversight Board, an agency which is supposed to make sure the FBI, the CIA and other spy agencies are following the law. No other changes have been noticed.

Wikileaks
The publication of US diplomatic cables by Wikileaks and then by main stream news outlets sparked condemnation by Obama administration officials who said the publication of accurate government documents was nothing less than an attack on the United States. The Attorney General announced a criminal investigation and promised “this is not saber rattling.” Government officials warned State Department employees not to download the publicly available documents. A State Department official and Columbia officials warned students that discussing Wikileaks or linking documents to social networking sites could jeopardize their chances of getting a government job, a position that lasted several days until reversed by other Columbia officials. At the time this was written, the Obama administration continued to try to find ways to prosecute the publishers of Wikileaks.

Censorship of Books by the CIA
In 2011, the CIA demanded extensive cuts from a memoir by former FBI agent Ali H. Soufan, in part because it made the agency look bad. Soufan’s book detailed the use of torture methods on captured prisoners and mistakes that led to 9-11. Similarly, a 2011 book on interrogation methods by former CIA agent Glenn Carle was subjected to extensive black outs. The CIA under the Obama administration continues its push for censorship.

Blocking Publication of Photos of U.S. Soldiers Abusing Prisoners
In May 2009, President Obama reversed his position of three weeks earlier and refused to release photos of US soldiers abusing prisoners. In April 2009, the US Department of Defense told a federal court that it would release the photos. The photos were part of nearly 200 criminal investigations into abuses by soldiers.



Technological Spying

The Bay Area Transit System, in August 2011, hearing of rumors to protest against fatal shootings by their police, shut down cell service in four stations. Western companies sell email surveillance software to repressive regimes in China, Libya and Syria to use against protestors and human rights activists. Surveillance cameras monitor residents in high crime areas, street corners and other governmental buildings. Police department computers ask for and receive daily lists from utility companies with addresses and names of every home address in their area. Computers in police cars scan every license plate of every car they drive by. The Obama administration has made no serious effort to cut back these new technologies of spying on citizens.

Use of “State Secrets” to Shield Government and Others from review
When the Bush government was caught hiring private planes from a Boeing subsidiary to transport people for torture to other countries, the Bush administration successfully asked the federal trial court to dismiss a case by detainees tortured because having a trial would disclose “state secrets” and threaten national security. When President Obama was elected, the state secrets defense was reaffirmed in arguments before a federal appeals court. It continues to be a mainstay of the Obama administration effort to cloak their actions and the actions of the Bush administration in secrecy.

In another case, it became clear in 2005 that the Bush FBI was avoiding the Fourth Amendment requirement to seek judicial warrants to get telephone and internet records by going directly to the phone companies and asking for the records. The government and the companies, among other methods of surveillance, set up secret rooms where phone and internet traffic could be monitored. In 2008, the government granted the companies amnesty for violating the privacy rights of their customers. Customers sued anyway. But the Obama administration successfully argued to the district court, among other defenses, that disclosure would expose state secrets and should be dismissed. The case is now on appeal.

Material Support
The Obama administration successfully asked the US Supreme Court not to apply the First Amendment and to allow the government to criminalize humanitarian aid and legal activities of people providing advice or support to foreign organizations which are listed on the government list as terrorist organizations. The material support law can now be read to penalize people who provide humanitarian aid or human rights advocacy. The Obama administration Solicitor General argued to the court “when you help Hezbollah build homes, you are also helping Hezbollah build bombs.” The Court agreed with the Obama argument that national security trumps free speech in these circumstances.

Chicago Anti-war Grand Jury Investigation
In September 2010, FBI agents raided the homes of seven peace activists in Chicago, Minneapolis and Grand Rapids seizing computers, cell phones, passports, and records. More than 20 anti-war activists were issued federal grand jury subpoenas and more were questioned across the country. Some of those targeted were members of local labor unions, others members of organizations like the Arab American Action Network, the Columbia Action Network, the Twin Cities Anti-War Campaign and the Freedom Road Socialist Organization. Many were active internationally and visited resistance groups in Columbia and Palestine. Subpoenas directed people to bring anything related to trips to Columbia, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Israel or the Middle East. In 2011, the home of a Los Angeles activist was raided and he was questioned about his connections with the September 2010 activists. All of these investigations are directed by the Obama administration.

Punishing Whistleblowers
The Obama administration has prosecuted five whistleblowers under the Espionage Act, more than all the other administrations in history put together. They charged a National Security Agency advisor with ten felonies under the Espionage Act for telling the press that government eavesdroppers were wasting hundreds of millions of dollars on misguided and failed projects. After their case collapsed, the government, which was chastised by the federal judge as engaging in unconscionable conduct allowed him to plead to a misdemeanor and walk. The administration has also prosecuted former members of the CIA, the State Department, and the FBI. They even tried to subpoena a journalist and one of the lawyers for the whistleblowers.

Bradley Manning
Army private Bradley Manning is accused of leaking thousands of government documents to Wikileaks. These documents expose untold numbers of lies by US government officials, wrongful killings of civilians, policies to ignore torture in Iraq, information about who is held at Guantanamo, cover ups of drone strikes and abuse of children and much more damaging information about US malfeasance. Though Daniel Ellsberg and other whistleblowers say Bradley is an American hero, the US government has jailed him and is threatening him with charges of espionage which may be punished by the death penalty. For months Manning was held in solitary confinement and forced by guards to sleep naked. When asked about how Manning was being held, President Obama personally defended the conditions of his confinement saying he had been assured they were appropriate and meeting our basic standards.

Solitary Confinement
At least 20,000 people are in solitary confinement in US jails and prisons, some estimate several times that many. Despite the fact that federal, state and local prisons and jails do not report actual numbers, academic research estimates tens of thousands are kept in cells for 23 to 24 hours a day in supermax units and prisons, in lockdown, in security housing units, in “the hole”, and in special management units or administrative segregation. Human Rights Watch reports that one-third to one-half of the prisoners in solitary are likely mentally ill. In May 2006, the UN Committee on Torture concluded that the United States should “review the regimen imposed on detainees in supermax prisons, in particular, the practice of prolonged isolation.” The Obama administration has taken no steps to cut back on the use of solitary confinement in federal, state or local jails and prisons.

Special Administrative Measures
Special Administrative Measures (SAMS) are extra harsh conditions of confinement imposed on prisoners (including pre-trial detainees) by the Attorney General. The U.S. Bureau of Prisons imposes restrictions such segregation and isolation from all other prisoners, and limitation or denial of contact with the outside world such as: no visitors except attorneys, no contact with news media, no use of phone, no correspondence, no contact with family, no communication with guards, 24 hour video surveillance and monitoring. The DOJ admitted in 2009 that several dozen prisoners, including several pre-trial detainees, mostly Muslims, were kept incommunicado under SAMS. If anything, the use of SAMS has increased under the Obama administration.

These twenty concrete examples document a sustained assault on domestic civil liberties in the United States under the Obama administration. Rhetoric aside, how different has Obama been from Bush in this area?

Bill is a human rights lawyer and law professor at Loyola University New Orleans. He also serves as Associate Legal Director of the Center for Constitutional Rights. He can be reached at Quigley77@gmail.com