General Wants Gay Ban Lifted

[darin]

I'd like an article showing how many senior leaders are FOR the policy. I bet those against openly (mentally unstable) homos-in-uniform outnumber those FOR, by a margin of 10:1.

[retiredman]

I'd like an article showing how many senior leaders are FOR the policy. I bet those against openly (mentally unstable) homos-in-uniform outnumber those FOR, by a margin of 10:1.

well...with an enlightened attitude like that, I have no doubt you would feel that way. I think that you would find that military commanders, by and large, care a lot more about how well a person does his job when he's on duty than who he sleeps with off duty.

[Pale Rider]

well...with an enlightened attitude like that, I have no doubt you would feel that way. I think that you would find that military commanders, by and large, care a lot more about how well a person does his job when he's on duty than who he sleeps with off duty.

Can you make ONE COMMENT, to a person with an opinion that differs from your's, WITHOUT THE OPENING SLAP IN THE FACE?!

I'm getting sick of it. I'm asking you to cool it.

__________________________________________________ _____


There's only one way to incorporate homo's into the military, and that would be to put them one by one into a girl basic training squadron. If you put them in with men or together to themselves, that's the same as putting straight men and women in together. You'd have to put them in with a sex they weren't attracted to, since the whole group is naked and showers together. As far as on the job, sure, let them go fight if that's what they want.

[retiredman]

Mr. Pale Rider, sir. I would suggest that referring to gay people as "mentally unstable homos" might be construed as a slap in the face to a great number of people, and even though I am not gay myself, I am offended by such references. It seems that you are willing to condone slaps in the face when they originate from your side of the aisle.

Just respectful food for thought

[dirt mcgirt]

Mr. Pale Rider, sir. I would suggest that referring to gay people as "mentally unstable homos" might be construed as a slap in the face to a great number of people, and even though I am not gay myself, I am offended by such references. It seems that you are willing to condone slaps in the face when they originate from your side of the aisle.

Just respectful food for thought

I agree with MFM on this one. Generally speaking, you can't say the shit you guys say and then not expect to get a response like that. His response was mild at best.

[darin]

I agree with MFM on this one. Generally speaking, you can't say the shit you guys say and then not expect to get a response like that. His response was mild at best.

[admin hat = on]
Thanks for your input - but this is not a debate. When a Moderator asks a member to change the tone or direction of their post, the member needs to comply - rightly or wrongly. The member is encouraged to take up the issue with the moderator via PM; if they don't get the results they want, they can speak to an Administrator about the problem.

Thanks

[/admin]

[dirt mcgirt]

[admin hat = on]
Thanks for your input - but this is not a debate. When a Moderator asks a member to change the tone or direction of their post, the member needs to comply - rightly or wrongly. The member is encouraged to take up the issue with the moderator via PM; if they don't get the results they want, they can speak to an Administrator about the problem.

Thanks

[/admin]

And I totally respect your need to police the board and keep civility. But IMO it's being done selectively. I've already complained to the admins about some of the behaviors of the mods. MFM might be wrong in how he comes off sometimes but he's correct in that this board is slanted to the right. I've seen Pale Rider and OCA engage in personal flame fests and then flaunt the fact that they were mods during those exchanges. Some of PR's posts might be offensive in nature despite being his personal opinion, just as MFM's might be offensive in nature despite being his personal opinion. It's unacceptable for the admins and mods to say that generalizations are okay but personal attacks aren't because it's in the eye of the beholder.

Example: If I say that homos are sick fucks then you guys would consider that acceptable because it's a personal opinion. But if I say conservatives are sick fucks some of the mods, admins, and posters would consider that trolling.

The admins and mods need to apply the rules equally if you want the board to grow. Either put every thread that devolves into a flame fest in the steel cage area or don't put any of them in there. But one thing's for sure, it's not acceptable for mods to engage in mud slinging but then appeal to decency when they get it back. I have more people that are interested in registering, but they're not going to participate if they're not going to get a fair shake. I really do want the board to grow, but my participation is dependent on how objective you guys are. My 2 cents.

[retiredman]

There's only one way to incorporate homo's into the military, and that would be to put them one by one into a girl basic training squadron. If you put them in with men or together to themselves, that's the same as putting straight men and women in together. You'd have to put them in with a sex they weren't attracted to, since the whole group is naked and showers together. As far as on the job, sure, let them go fight if that's what they want.

I also must say that I am quite leery of suggestions that there is "only one way" to do nearly anything. I think such a pronouncement is profoundly presumptious. I served in the Navy and there was no question in my mind that numerous sailors and officers I served with over the years were gay. I knew it...They knew that I knew it and I knew that they knew... and damned near every one else on the ship knew. There was NEVER one single problem with ANY of those men during all those years.

[Larrymc]

I also must say that I am quite leery of suggestions that there is "only one way" to do nearly anything. I think such a pronouncement is profoundly presumptious. I served in the Navy and there was no question in my mind that numerous sailors and officers I served with over the years were gay. I knew it...They knew that I knew it and I knew that they knew... and damned near every one else on the ship knew. There was NEVER one single problem with ANY of those men during all those years.

i think the point is, though it may have been widely known, the behavior its self was also widely known not to be acceptable both in and out of the Military, which kept things in check, but now openly serving is a whole different thing, That's what made don't ask don't tell perfect for today's Military, i also believe that openly serving, should bring up housing issues, not only will Gay's be more tempted, but straits may be uncomfortable, are subjected to unwanted advances, it may even start to deter many from joining. i think Obama has opened up a can of worms

[fj1200]

i think the point is, though it may have been widely known, the behavior its self was also widely known not to be acceptable both in and out of the Military, which kept things in check, but now openly serving is a whole different thing, That's what made don't ask don't tell perfect for today's Military, i also believe that openly serving, should bring up housing issues, not only will Gay's be more tempted, but straits may be uncomfortable, are subjected to unwanted advances, it may even start to deter many from joining. i think Obama has opened up a can of worms

Oh brother, you are aware of the armed forces history of sexual assault aren't you?

[creativeage]

If there is going to be a "live and let live" freedom to-be-who-you-are policy in the military, so what? Those who stand up to protect my freedom in America always receive my kudos. I am straight, and married - not exactly for gay marriage at the moment only because "marriage" is a biblical-based union under God, not a government institution - but isn't it true that freedom goes both ways?
Just like if a guy is free to bed with two women...or is he really? According the whom?
Or, how about the shower issue from Pale Rider? Can a heterosexual male who is uncomfortable showering around someone who is staring at him as a potential date freely exercise his rights to feel safe? (isn't that scenario similar to putting a straight guy in the shower room with ladies?) Does this mean then there should be separate locker rooms? Just pointing these things out as this stuff comes up!...bring more stuff.

Who the heck knows, really - I say live and let live:When it all comes down to it - we all answer to God (or our higher power -maker) at some point.

[actsnoblemartin]

I say its time to repeal the ban, if israel can allow openly gay people to serve, then we should too

If there is going to be a "live and let live" freedom to-be-who-you-are policy in the military, so what? Those who stand up to protect my freedom in America always receive my kudos. I am straight, and married - not exactly for gay marriage at the moment only because "marriage" is a biblical-based union under God, not a government institution - but isn't it true that freedom goes both ways?
Just like if a guy is free to bed with two women...or is he really? According the whom?
Or, how about the shower issue from Pale Rider? Can a heterosexual male who is uncomfortable showering around someone who is staring at him as a potential date freely exercise his rights to feel safe? (isn't that scenario similar to putting a straight guy in the shower room with ladies?) Does this mean then there should be separate locker rooms? Just pointing these things out as this stuff comes up!...bring more stuff.

Who the heck knows, really - I say live and let live:When it all comes down to it - we all answer to God (or our higher power -maker) at some point.

[darin]

well...with an enlightened attitude like that, I have no doubt you would feel that way. I think that you would find that military commanders, by and large, care a lot more about how well a person does his job when he's on duty than who he sleeps with off duty.

Do you know any Military Commanders? There IS no 'off duty' for soldiers. Being on Active Duty in the military is a lifestyle. A lifestyle which is NOT compatable with open homosexuality. Should homosexual relationships be allowed, commanders would have to also sanction relationships between enlisted and commissioned soldiers. I mean, 'off duty hours' belong to the people, RIGHT?

Wrong. That's simply NOT how the Army (specifically) works.

Homosexuals, by their very acceptance of their lusts, show lack of good judgement, lack of mental toughness, and lack of discipline - off the top of my head. Homosexuality is a treatable affliction for those who have the good sense to seek help. It's probably tougher to kick than alcoholism - but people can be restored from the deviant behavior.

[retiredman]

Do you know any Military Commanders? There IS no 'off duty' for soldiers. Being on Active Duty in the military is a lifestyle. A lifestyle which is NOT compatable with open homosexuality. Should homosexual relationships be allowed, commanders would have to also sanction relationships between enlisted and commissioned soldiers. I mean, 'off duty hours' belong to the people, RIGHT?

Wrong. That's simply NOT how the Army (specifically) works.

Homosexuals, by their very acceptance of their lusts, show lack of good judgement, lack of mental toughness, and lack of discipline - off the top of my head. Homosexuality is a treatable affliction for those who have the good sense to seek help. It's probably tougher to kick than alcoholism - but people can be restored from the deviant behavior.

I actually spent a little time in the Navy and I AM, a Commander, as a matter of fact. It is my opinion that your views on homosexuality are dated, bigoted, borne of hatred and ignorance, and insulting. ANd the issue with officer-enlisted is completely different in that it potentially impacts the officer enlisted command structure and may compromise the officer's authority over that enlisted person. For that reason, gambling, while not sanctioned, is politely ignored except in instances where officers and enlisted are jointly involved.

[MtnBiker]

"Hey Bruce lets keep an eye out for the enemy. Gee Joe I'm having a hard time focusing on that, I keep thinking about your butt."