JP Cusick and Child Support

[Abbey Marie]

...
There are some smaller improvements which could be done to improve the laws, but the "best" change would be to completely end the Child Support orders completely and get the laws and the Courts out of the parenting business.

Truly - the 2 parents (all parents worldwide) can and would do just fine without the State or laws violating their relationship or their parenting.

Of course if there is physical abuse or harmful neglect or parental incompetence then that is a totally different subject.

That is a direct summary.

I guess you believe in the goodness of people more than I do.

[red states rule]

Fortunately for me that you do not get to define the "civil disobedience" for me.

And if you must cling to the old interpretation, then mine is a new improved version of the concept of civil disobedience.

Also Gandhi and MLK used non-violence but I say we Americans have the right to seek a 2nd Amendment solution when our Gov enforces such evil laws.

Plus - at that time my local Newspaper gave me the front-page-headline calling me as "the Courthouse Vandal" and I always felt proud of that title.

You are NOT what Maryland needs right now. There are enough liberals in elected office who think they can do whatever they want whenever they want

You would fit in fine with the hippies rioting in the streets, and destroying private property to get what they want

Your arrogance comes thru as you take pride in the destruction of private property. Something else the Dems in Annapolis Md have an over abundance of

[LuvRPgrl]

Yep. Majority of divorces now end in joint custody..

I dont know which universe you live in, but its not so in my universe . Also, there is a further breakdown of custody in to two categories, physical and legal custody. Mostly they get joint legal custody, which really means virtually nothing, and physiccal custody, which means the person who has the kids most of the time.

When there is sole custody it's usually because of one parent being deemed much more functional as a parent.

In ca. it is who has spent the most time with the kids prior to the seperation or divorce

or the parent giving up joint custody, doesn't want the responsibility..

which is very rare

Child support is for the children. Dmp's point of splitting the costs of housing, food, etc., when custodial parent isn't able to make 1/2 of the costs of keeping the children in the lifestyle they had previously, doesn't make sense..

It makes sense, just needs a tweeaking on the percentages, nobody remains living in the lifestyle they were accustomed to.

This is especially true when the major earner just wants to walk away..

again, very rare.

Take a good look at J.P.'s bio. After the divorce and the 'awarding' of child support, he took off to live the life of the happy traveler. No kids, no wife, no job. When that caught up with him, he went goofy and started spray painting graffiti on public buildings. That was the cause of incarceration and may be why he had limited/restricted visitation after.

I would never pass judgement on anyone until b oth sides of the story were heard.

[ConHog]

Not in my universe
In ca. it is who has spent the most time with the kids prior to the seperation or divorce
which is very rare

It makes sense, just needs a tweeaking on the percentages, nobody remains living in the lifestyle they were accustomed to.
again, very rare.

I would never pass judgement on anyone until b oth sides of the story were heard.

I agree with you on most of this.

In US courts most custody cases are automatically awarded to the mother unless the father can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the mother is unfit. Kath is wrong in her assumption that most cases end with joint custody, sort of. Most do end in joint physical custody, but not joint legal custody. Those are two different terms and in the case of joint physical custody one parent pays child support while in joint legal custody neither parent pays child support.

You're also correct that the courts don't care about making sure anyone maintains the same lifestyle as they did prior to the divorce. All they concern themselves with is that the children are provided the basics and that both parents help fund that.

You are wrong about JP's situation though; he's a douchebag for bailing on his kids , I don't care what his reasons are.

[LuvRPgrl]

True story. When my son was 2 years old. I walked in on his mom and another man. He ran ( I don't know , just because a 6'1" 190 lb man in camo wearing a pistol on his hip walked in on you porking his wife LOL) anyway I grabbed her by hair and heel and through her into the street. No clothes, no nothing. Fuck her..

Sounds to me like you made a very foolish choice in the beginning by deciding to marry her. Which is actually encouraGEd by our society .
I also am quite sure there is more to the story than what you have given us.

[ConHog]

Sounds to me like you made a very foolish choice in the beginning by deciding to marry her. I also am quite sure there is more to the story than what you have given us.

Oh, I definitely made a foolish choice when I married her. She was very beautiful at 19 and at 19 I thought that was enough.

No, there really isn't more than that. We never fought, or argued, I just happened to come home from work early one day and there she was cheating. I haven't spoken a word to her since that day . Like I said, her loss. I have a great new wife and the past is the past.

[Gunny]

You are totally correct, and the reason you must explain it to people as like "Kath" is because they try to make it into a personal affront instead of addressing the real issues involved.

People like "Kathianne" use their own case because she can then control the so called facts and she can win since the other persons involved in her case are not here to contradict here.

This is why I never reference my own case, and I try to get away from my own case when people try to attack me in that way.

I say the evil Child Support and Custody laws did start out as totally anti-male and many people still today want just to trash the Men and fathers, but it is like a sickness or disease which is growing as it is now anti-parent and they trash a few mothers too as if the self righteous want to give equal rights in their dirty hateful ways.

Really. Whose facts are YOU using? The courts and laws are set up to decide what's fair. The problem is "who" is doing the deciding. Ty blaming what's really at fault here. It isn't the law. It's the judge and they're like assholes -- everybody's got one. You get just as much justice in this country as you can afford to buy. That's the way it is, the way it's been, and I don't see it changing.

Might want to get off your holier-than-thou, I wish I was an intellectual high horse and work on your big picture viewmaster.

[LuvRPgrl]

I can tell that luckily for you you've never been involved in a child support case, because it is apparent that you're not overly familiar with how the system works.

The state issues a decree of course, but they will NEVER enforce it unless the custodial parent complains, and even then they don't do much. You have to $5K behind before it anything more than a misdemeanor and even then they don't move overly quickly to do anything.

So it wouldn't matter if on paper you were a million dollars behind in child support the state simply doesn't care unless and until a parent complains.

thats one of the funniest things I ever heard.

[ConHog]

thats one of the funniest things I ever heard.

Why is it funny? It absolute, 100% factual. Child Support Enforcement simply doesn't act on a case unless the custodial parent complains. The logic is simple. Why waste the resources prosecuting a case if the injured party doesn't care enough to register a complaint. Especially when they are swamped with cases anyway?

[Gunny]

Why is it funny? It absolute, 100% factual. Child Support Enforcement simply doesn't act on a case unless the custodial parent complains. The logic is simple. Why waste the resources prosecuting a case if the injured party doesn't care enough to register a complaint. Especially when they are swamped with cases anyway?

Hell, they don't do much half the time if even if the custodial parent complains.

[ConHog]

Hell, they don't do much half the time if even if the custodial parent complains.

Got that right, my ex wife is over $50K behind and when I opened a case with the Missouri CES the lady flat told me that they simply won't be doing anything about it if she doesn't pay.

[Abbey Marie]

Just a thought: Was child support involved in the beauty salon shooting?

[ConHog]

Just a thought: Was child support involved in the beauty salon shooting?

If it did, I'm sure that JP applauds the shooter's "civil disobedience"

[LuvRPgrl]

A few caveats. What I post is relevant to Ca. The laws vary state to state, BUT they are mostly the same in each state, but not always.
When I refer to the "man", in fact it means 90% the man and 10% the woman the woman, or thereabouts.
......The real issues isnt what is ordered in court, but in fact is, what court orders the state is willing to enforce.
Divorce laws are much different today than even 10 years ago, much less 20, and the law and reality dont always match, so if you have an issue with what I post, dont
............ quote me .any laws, show me the facts of what is being enforced. Judges routinely ignore the law, and appealing is expensive.
Lastly, how the law is enforced, depends very much on who it is being enforced against, the man or the woman.

The single most important issue is being ignored, which is being proven by this thread. Visitation is soooo much more important than CS. I know, the thread is about CS, but you
cant.......... discuss one without the other, cuz it is extremely common for the mothers to refuse visitation if child support isnt paid.
Kids suffer much more from lack of a father than from a downgrade in economics.

Why is it funny? It absolute, 100% factual. Child Support Enforcement simply doesn't act on a case unless the custodial parent complains. The logic is simple. Why waste the resources prosecuting a case if the injured party doesn't care enough to register a complaint. Especially when they are swamped with cases anyway?

Its infinitaley more complicated than that.
But the issue I have a problem with is you say they act slowly when they receive a complaint about it.

Just for starters, very often women use the county services for collection, and they IMMEDIATELY jump on the case if a man misses one payment, whether the woman complains or not.. But if the woman denies visitation, the men have to spend thousands of dollars on attorney and court costs, and its a long time before they get any relief, if any at all.
.........The police refuse to enforce a court order if it entails them going into a building and removing the kids so the father can have visitation, but not a blink goes by before they are willing to go into the mans wallet and enforce CS under the threat of physical violence with a gun. And this is irrelevant if the man is a great father or bad, making lots of money or collecting unemployment.
.
And they will imprison a man for failing to pay, prison over a debt, which is unconstitutional.
You think the IRS is harsh on collection enforcement, they are kitty cats compared to the panther of Child Support.
.
They will take your passport and drivers license without hearing a word from you on why you cant or arent paying.
.I
f someone wants to get their amount lowered, it will cost them thousands of dollars, many times they dont have it. And dont give me that shit about being able to do it yourself, when a person represents themselves, there are so many technicalities and tricks only an experienced lawyer knows, not to mention the attitude and scowl the judge immedetley gets when they read IN PRO PER.

[ConHog]

A few caveats. What I post is relevant to Ca. The laws vary state to state, BUT they are mostly the same in each state, but not always.
When I refer to the "man", in fact it means 90% the man and 10% the woman the woman, or thereabouts.
The real issues isnt what is ordered in court, but in fact is, what court orders the state is willing to enforce.
Divorce laws are much different today than even 10 years ago, much less 20, and the law and reality dont always match, so if you have an issue with what I post, dont quote me any laws, show me the facts of what is being enforced. Judges routinely ignore the law, and appealing is expensive.
Lastly, how the law is enforced, depends very much on who it is being enforced against, the man or the woman.

The single most important issue is being ignored, which is being proven by this thread. Visitation is soooo much more important than CS. I know, the thread is about CS, but you cant discuss one without the other, cuz it is extremely common for the mothers to refuse visitation if child support isnt paid.
Kids suffer much more from lack of a father than from a downgrade in economics.

Its infinitaley more complicated than that.
But the issue I have a problem with is you say they act slowly when they receive a complaint about it.

Just for starters, very often women use the county services for collection, and they IMMEDIATELY jump on the case if a man misses one payment, whether the woman complains or not.. But if the woman denies visitation, the men have to spend thousands of dollars on attorney and court costs, and its a long time before they get any relief, if any at all.
The police refuse to enforce a court order if it entails them going into a building and removing the kids so the father can have visitation, but not a blink goes by before they are willing to go into the mans wallet and enforce CS under the threat of physical violence with a gun. And this is irrelevant if the man is a great father or bad, making lots of money or collecting unemployment.
.
And they will imprison a man for failing to pay, prison over a debt, which is unconstitutional.
You think the IRS is harsh on collection enforcement, they are kitty cats compared to the panther of Child Support.
.
They will take your passport and drivers license without hearing a word from you on why you cant or arent paying.
.I
f someone wants to get their amount lowered, it will cost them thousands of dollars, many times they dont have it. And dont give me that shit about being able to do it yourself, when a person represents themselves, there are so many technicalities and tricks only an experienced lawyer knows, not to mention the attitude and scowl the judge immedetley gets when they read IN PRO PER.

You are as wrong as wrong can be on this. Now I do believe that some CES employees are more sympathetic towards women then they are towards men; but you don't have an understanding of how the system works.

For many years I chaired the Arkansas chapter of a national father's rights group and became involved with MANY cases.

County employees have exactly ZERO ability to prosecute a person for failure to pay child support. They can't even send a letter. NOTHING. ANd that is true in EVERY state. Each state has a Child Support Enforcement Agency, which works in conjunction with the federal government to collect child support that hasn't been paid. A case does not automatically go to them just becuase a child support order has been issued, nor do they automatically jump on a case if a parent gets behind on child support. Not EVER, regardless of the sex of the parent. You know why? Because in say CA there are about 50K child support decrees at any one time. The state doesn't have the manpower to be eyeballing all of those cases . They rely on the CUSTODIAL parent to make them aware of a parent who has fallen behind.

Here is how the system works.

Non custodial parent misses a child support payment
Custodial parent calls county employee and complains
County employee gives custodial parent the hotline phone number for the CES
Custodial parent calls the hotline
Hotline employee asks if it has been 30 days since the last payment. If the answer is no, custodial parent is informed to call back if it gets to thirty days without a payment

Now let's assume it DOES get to thirty days.

Custodial Parent calls hotline again
Hotline asks for address of Custodial Parent and informs them that they will mail them a form to fill out requesting a case be opened. Fill out form and return
Custodial parent receives form, fills it out and returns it.
Hotline calls custodial parent to inform them that they have located the non custodial parent and send them a letter stating that they are $X behind in child support and that they have 30 days to either dispute the claim in writing or start making payments.

Now at this point one of three things happens. Either the parent disputes the claim (rare) the parent starts paying CS ( even rarer) or the parent ignores the letter (most likely)

If the non custodial disputes the claim then you're going back to court

If the non custodial starts paying CS within 30 days your case is closed unless and until they miss 30 days again and you open another case.

If the non custodial ignores the letter and does nothing then CSE takes the next step

Hotline goes through IRS to locate non custodial's employer (if they don't have an employer you're pretty much screwed as they aren't going to throw people in jail for being unemployed and unable to pay child support)

Once employer is located ANOTHER letter is mailed informing the employer of the garnishment and instructing them to deduct the amount owed in child support (up to a maximum of 25% of their net pay per federal law) from their paycheck. They have 60 days to comply.

During that 60 days , exactly NO action will be taken against the non custodial.

Now here's where non custodial parents usually show how shitty they really are and they quit that job so as to avoid the garnishment. Guess what that means? The process starts all over. Locate new employer, send letter, give 60 days to comply.

Now we are at minimum 3 months into the process and no one has went to jail. Nor even had their license revoked.

Now after that there are other options, including the state confiscating income tax refunds, lottery winnings etc etc. And those are always taken before any legal procedures to punish a non custodial.

Bottom line, as long as a parent is making SOME attempt to pay child support they will NEVER be prosecuted. Hell in many cases they aren't prosecuted even when they make NO effort.