Catholics ready to fight over mandatory birth control/abortion pill health coverage

[LuvRPgrl]

Oh good grief, the INSURANCE company is the conduit, not the hospital.

You're just playing semantics anyway..

and you arent?

Bottom line these hospitals are not primarily religious institutions and so they are not afforded the same protections as a church. For example, they can't discriminate and hire only Catholic doctors/nurses..

not being able to hire only Catholics does not violate Catholic teachings, dogma.

But certainly Catholic Churches hire only Catholics,.

I doubt it, but even if so, they wouldnt do it because of Biblical law.

and it's legal because there is an exception in the law. .

Which just proves that it shouldnt pertain to anyone

Also, one can get a prescription for birth control at these hospitals,.

proof?

or just buy condoms at the gift shop..[/QUOTE]
you are claiming catholic hospitals sell condoms? I would be surprised if they did.

Hell, they even do emergency abortions to save the mother's life if need be..

Which is an entirely different animal than elective abortions

This entire argument is bogus. The fact that Obamacare may be (and should be) ruled unconstitutional has NO bearing on whether these hospitals should receive an exemption if the law stands . NONE.

THE church hospitals should not be forced to pay for contraception, its contrary to their teachings. If you cant provide an exception for them, then that just proves that nobody should be required to

[LuvRPgrl]

Is that relevant? Are you now proposing that the exemption should be restricted to those hospitals which follow ALL Catholic edicts?

its a simple question, not a proposal or statement at all.
Do all hospitals that have a belief in their religous teachings that contraceptives are immoral, performing "what amounts to birth control" ?

[ConHog]

its a simple question, not a proposal or statement at all.
Do all hospitals that have a belief in their religous teachings that contraceptives are immoral, performing "what amounts to birth control" ?

At least some of them are, so do you provide them the exemption anyway, or do we now split up the exemption and only give it to "real" catholic churches?

[LuvRPgrl]

At least some of them are, so do you provide them the exemption anyway, or do we now split up the exemption and only give it to "real" catholic churches?

good question. Probably isnt practical, or even possible.
But hospitals that dont provide birth control shouldnt be punished, or grouped with religous based hospitals that do. And Im not so sure any, or almost any Catholic hospitals are providing contraceptives.

[ConHog]

good question. Probably isnt practical, or even possible.
But hospitals that dont provide birth control shouldnt be punished, or grouped with religous based hospitals that do. And Im not so sure any, or almost any Catholic hospitals are providing contraceptives.

I'm sure many aren't , but I can guarantee you SOME are. We've heard too many stories too believe otherwise..

All of them are under the same umbrella Catholic organization so that means what any one does reflects on the entire organization, so the organization has some hospitals providing birth control and some not providing birth control, that invalidates the entire argument for the organization so that means your option is to now go hospital by hospital and determine on a case by case basis if they qualify? Totally impractical. So no one gets any exemption.

Oh and this is IF you can convince me that paying for INSURANCE that might provide birth control coverage violates anyone's rights. I contend it does not which makes my entire first argument theoretical anyway.

[LuvRPgrl]

I'm sure many aren't , but I can guarantee you SOME are. We've heard too many stories too believe otherwise.. .

So your "proof" is gossip ?

All of them are under the same umbrella Catholic organization so that means what any one does reflects on the entire organization, so the organization has some hospitals providing birth control and some not providing birth control, that invalidates the entire argument for the organization so that means your option is to now go hospital by hospital and determine on a case by case basis if they qualify? Totally impractical. So no one gets any exemption..

still no proof, Ive heard wayyy to many stories about your fence straddling, so I guess it must be true.

Oh and this is IF you can convince me that paying for INSURANCE that might provide birth control coverage violates anyone's rights. I contend it does not which makes my entire first argument theoretical anyway.

Dont have to provide anything. It does.
Simple, my religion dictates that I cannot take another life, so if I supply a gun , knowingly that the person will use it to end someones life, I am guilty.
My religion says that birth control is immoral, therefore I cannot provide it, pay for it, or in any other way help people obtain it

[krisy]

Oh and this is IF you can convince me that paying for INSURANCE that might provide birth control coverage violates anyone's rights. I contend it does not which makes my entire first argument theoretical anyway.

The first amendment is right there,clear as day. That is the only proof needed. Just because someone doesn't like it is no reason to ignore it.

[revelarts]

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
Thomas Jefferson

How much more propagation of activities?

[ConHog]

The first amendment is right there,clear as day. That is the only proof needed. Just because someone doesn't like it is no reason to ignore it.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Here's the Amendment. Now we can stipulate that the Catholic Church believes its members shouldn't use birth control. Correct? Good.

Now can you show me where the Catholic Church has EVER advocated that its members not buy health insurance for their employees that MIGHT cover birth control if those employees choose to use it?

Those are two entirely different things and the Church is not being asked to do anything that is against their beliefs here. It's not like the Amish who simply don't believe in any kinds of insurance (by the way I have to ask this, we have some Amish around here who drive and I'm not aware of them being exempt from insurance requirements in that regard. Anyone know anything about that?)

Please don't come back with Obama care is unconstitutional. because of course it is, but that is irrelevant to THIS point.

[LuvRPgrl]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Here's the Amendment. Now we can stipulate that the Catholic Church believes its members shouldn't use birth control. Correct? Good.

Now can you show me where the Catholic Church has EVER advocated that its members not buy health insurance for their employees that MIGHT cover birth control if those employees choose to use it?

Those are two entirely different things and the Church is not being asked to do anything that is against their beliefs here. It's not like the Amish who simply don't believe in any kinds of insurance (by the way I have to ask this, we have some Amish around here who drive and I'm not aware of them being exempt from insurance requirements in that regard. Anyone know anything about that?)

Please don't come back with Obama care is unconstitutional. because of course it is, but that is irrelevant to THIS point.

you must have thick skin, you dont mind being wrong alot.