Holder: U.S. can lawfully target American citizens

[revelarts]

And for those wanting to call this an assassination - would you then agree that every terrorist that has been targeted, every enemy combatant that has been targeted - they've all been assassinated?

If they were driving down the street or the like peaceful activity, not attacking anyone else at the time. Yes Absolutely they were assassinated.

[Intense]

I guess my principle concern is how we set precedent for targeted assassination and Drone Surveillance and attacks. We will not be the only Power in the Future, with this capability. I would not expect everything to be Transparent to those that do not need to know, yet I would Expect the highest level of Checks and Balances, Good Form, Proper Procedure, and Everyone in the Loop up to speed.

[jimnyc]

Awlaki assassinated? I suppose that might be the correct definition since he was a leader but every terrorist/combatant targeted is not assassination. The question here though is American citizens and what rights they have.

Being an American citizen doesn't make it an assassination. And being a leader doesn't make it one either. Nor does due process. If this man was "assassinated", so was Bin Laden, Zawahri and other terrorists that were targeted.

[Intense]

If they were driving down the street or the like peaceful activity, not attacking anyone else at the time. Yes Absolutely they were assassinated.

I'd agree. I do think it it was Justified, we need to clean up the means though.

[jimnyc]

Don't skip his "Hell Bent" trip to the pentagon where he was a guest. and somehow was not dangerous enough to be captured there either. Or that wa s before he turned evil, but wait I thought Muslims were Always evil and Hell Bent on killing ... I can't keep the propaganda strait. maybe i'm over thinking it
we are suppose to just forget about his visit to the pentagon, down the memory hole with that. keep the thinking clear here. He's an enemy of the state! he's always been and enemy of the state! We've alway been at war with the muslims we always have to kill 1st ask questions later... except the with Saudis with 9-11 terrorist connections um .. ok wait a minute.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Blott...6#.T1jrvMwf9eQ

Hey, it wasn't me who said we couldn't even go as far as a background check on a terrorist unless we have bonafide proof that he killed at least 10 Americans, that was you.

[jimnyc]

If they were driving down the street or the like peaceful activity, not attacking anyone else at the time. Yes Absolutely they were assassinated.

An assassination also has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with that they were doing at the time of their killing. A dictionary can be your friend sometimes.

[Intense]

Being an American citizen doesn't make it an assassination. And being a leader doesn't make it one either. Nor does due process. If this man was "assassinated", so was Bin Laden, Zawahri and other terrorists that were targeted.

I agree. Maybe in the same way a Cop might choose to either Arrest or
Shoot to Kill an Armed Robber, based on circumstance, or arbitrarily.

Sometimes during a crime or after the fact, shit happens. A Sworn Enemy of the State, is still a sworn enemy of the State, whether involved with a plot or not, whether awake or asleep.

My question would be... Where and When can Drones Legally and Officially act with impunity? Under what terms? Does the same hold for the competition?

[jimnyc]

I agree. Maybe in the same way a Cop might choose to either Arrest or
Shoot to Kill an Armed Robber, based on circumstance, or arbitrarily.

Sometimes during a crime or after the fact, shit happens. A Sworn Enemy of the State, is still a sworn enemy of the State, whether involved with a plot or not, whether awake or asleep.

My question would be... Where and When can Drones Legally and Officially act with impunity? Under what terms? Does the same hold for the competition?

Good questions, and most definitely need clarification. This "war on terrorism" is still very young, as are the drones, and the "game plan" from both the US and terrorists changes daily.

And of course it should be the same for the "competition". If an American is targeting their citizens in terror attacks, they should be able to target him/her for death. Someone should have done that to this piece of garbage and saved us this debate.

[revelarts]

An assassination also has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with that they were doing at the time of their killing. A dictionary can be your friend sometimes.

yes it can
as·sas·si·nate  [uh-sas-uh-neyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing.
1.to kill suddenly or secretively, especially a politically prominent person; murder premeditatedly and treacherously.

1. to murder (a person, esp a public or political figure), usually by a surprise attack

My reference was in contrast to someone killed in Battle. Like in a real war. Or even a killed in a stand off like a bank criminal.

Assassinate is the right word.
When a car bomb kills a mob guy it's an assassination.
own it Jim

[jimnyc]

yes it can
as·sas·si·nate  [uh-sas-uh-neyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing.
1.to kill suddenly or secretively, especially a politically prominent person; murder premeditatedly and treacherously.

1. to murder (a person, esp a public or political figure), usually by a surprise attack

My reference was in contrast to someone killed in Battle. Like in a real war. Or even a killed in a stand off like a bank criminal.

Assassinate is the right word.
When a car bomb kills a mob guy it's an assassination.
own it Jim

Well, then we are guilty of assassinating MANY, MANY terrorists in the past 10 years. The horror of it all.

Nonetheless, it was you yourself who stated we aren't even allowed to shoot at the enemy on the battlefield unless they shoot at us first. Wacky.

[Intense]

Good questions, and most definitely need clarification. This "war on terrorism" is still very young, as are the drones, and the "game plan" from both the US and terrorists changes daily.

And of course it should be the same for the "competition". If an American is targeting their citizens in terror attacks, they should be able to target him/her for death. Someone should have done that to this piece of garbage and saved us this debate.

My concern would by more directed at China or Russia.

[revelarts]

Hey, it wasn't me who said we couldn't even go as far as a background check on a terrorist unless we have bonafide proof that he killed at least 10 Americans, that was you.

the Pentagon couldn't get a background check LOL!

[fj1200]

Being an American citizen doesn't make it an assassination. And being a leader doesn't make it one either. Nor does due process. If this man was "assassinated", so was Bin Laden, Zawahri and other terrorists that were targeted.

Not sure what dictionary you're using but I would probably put it in the assassinate category based on below. I don't know about Zawahiri but bin Laden a capture was attempted so not assassinated. Awlaki was also not committing a crime at the time of attack.

as·sas·si·nate  [uh-sas-uh-neyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing.
1.to kill suddenly or secretively, especially a politically prominent person; murder premeditatedly and treacherously.

1. to murder (a person, esp a public or political figure), usually by a surprise attack

Good questions, and most definitely need clarification. This "war on terrorism" is still very young, as are the drones, and the "game plan" from both the US and terrorists changes daily.

And of course it should be the same for the "competition". If an American is targeting their citizens in terror attacks, they should be able to target him/her for death. Someone should have done that to this piece of garbage and saved us this debate.

The WOT is not that young that we need to be making decisions like this completely by one branch of government. Congress has been a fail on this IMO and judicial has not even had a chance to comment outside of the Awlaki suit brought by his father though the courts have made a few decisions on some WOT policies and they are not always siding with the Executive. That last part should cause some concern for the administrations position.

[DragonStryk72]

And for those wanting to call this an assassination - would you then agree that every terrorist that has been targeted, every enemy combatant that has been targeted - they've all been assassinated?

Um yes, whether or not it was the right thing to do, it's still assassination. Any time where you have a person or drone killing a person who is not directly attacking you, and you take him out from the shadows, or some other covert way, that's an assassination. So yeah, it's an assassination, not a "targeted killing", which is basically the definition of assassinating someone when you get down to it.

Now assassination gets a bad rap, really, because it of course brings to mind assassins, a career we see as being a purely illicit one. However, assassinating a target can be a way to prevent the greater loss of life, both to our allies, innocent bystanders, and to enemies. In an assassination, it's most usually one person taking a shot at one exact person, as opposed to a breach assault, where you have moments of chaos where any number can be killed on both sides. This is where so many get killed or wounded by friendly fire, because in those moments of the breach there are sounds coming from every direction, and all involved have a sense of imminent danger that can override reason with instinct.

[jimnyc]

Not sure what dictionary you're using but I would probably put it in the assassinate category based on below. I don't know about Zawahiri but bin Laden a capture was attempted so not assassinated. Awlaki was also not committing a crime at the time of attack.

The WOT is not that young that we need to be making decisions like this completely by one branch of government. Congress has been a fail on this IMO and judicial has not even had a chance to comment outside of the Awlaki suit brought by his father though the courts have made a few decisions on some WOT policies and they are not always siding with the Executive. That last part should cause some concern for the administrations position.

By #2 in the definition, any drug dealer who conspires and plans to kill the competition, would therefore be performing an assassination.

And, like stated earlier, then EVERY major terrorist we have targeted in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere - all assassinations. Bitch about one then bitch about all - being an American doesn't make it any more/less of an "assassination".