Ricky - Seperation of church'n'state

[Noir]

Simple question, does Santorum have any idea what Seperation of church and state actually means?

Rick Santorum renewed his criticism of John F. Kennedy on Thursday night for saying during his 1960 campaign for the presidency that he believed “in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute.”“That’s not America,” the Republican presidential hopeful told a crowd at an Alabama dinner banquet. “That’s France. That’s a naked public square where people of faith are out of bounds.”

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=...%3D0%26DPL%3D3

[fj1200]

Simple question, does Santorum have any idea what Seperation of church and state actually means?

He paraphrased Kennedy as saying, “I will take no advice, directly or indirectly, from anybody of faith. I will not permit that to be discussed.” By saying that, Santorum argued, “he went too far.”

http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=...%3D0%26DPL%3D3

Maybe the quote above would have more accurate of his position. I think he has a perfect idea of what it actually means to him.

[jimnyc]

Serious question, Noir... Are you solely against Santorum because he is "strict" about his faith and/or vocal about it at times? Do you agree/disagree with any of his politics or decisions/votes?

[MtnBiker]

Simple question, does Santorum have any idea what Seperation of church and state actually means?

Do you know? Where in the US constitution do the words " separation of church and state " appear?

[jimnyc]

Do you know? Where in the US constitution do the words " separation of church and state " appear?

OOOhhh OOOhhh, can I answer that one?

[Noir]

Do you know? Where in the US constitution do the words " separation of church and state " appear?

The first amendment is in part a definition of the Seperation of church. The founding fathers didn't spell everything out.

[Noir]

Serious question, Noir... Are you solely against Santorum because he is "strict" about his faith and/or vocal about it at times? Do you agree/disagree with any of his politics or decisions/votes?

From what I know of him I don't like his moral politics, saying that victims of rape should not be elidgable for abortions, his worrisome comments about the constitution not giving US citizens to right to privacy, and he takes far too much interest in what people are doing in their bedrooms for my liking. For those reasons I wouldn't want him representing me.

[jimnyc]

From what I know of him I don't like his moral politics, saying that victims of rape should not be elidgable for abortions, his worrisome comments about the constitution not giving US citizens to right to privacy, and he takes far too much interest in what people are doing in their bedrooms for my liking. For those reasons I wouldn't want him representing me.

From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're saying you don't agree with his religious based stances. I don't think you would support him solely based on his regular outspokenness on his faith, even without the extreme comments.

[Noir]

From what I'm reading, it sounds like you're saying you don't agree with his religious based stances. I don't think you would support him solely based on his regular outspokenness on his faith, even without the extreme comments.

It's nothing to do with faith. Whether or not a raped woman should have the right to an abortion is not a faith issue. I wouldn't support anyone ni matter their reasons I'd they have a stance like Santorum. The fact that the reason Santorum has the stance he has because of his view on his religion makes no difference to me. It's what the view is that is wrong (IMO) not how he came to form the view.

[MtnBiker]

The first amendment is in part a definition of the Seperation of church. The founding fathers didn't spell everything out.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."


Santorum's interpretation is likely different than yours.

[Noir]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."


Santorum's interpretation is likely different than yours.

Well idk what his definition is, but looking at the OP it seems that he thinks that banning people of faith from public ground (in france, though I can't comment on that as such) is what Seperation of church and state is about....which is exactly the opposite. If he is against people of faith being banned from the public square by their government then Santorum should be in *support* or the Seperation of church and state.

The reason for this thread is to show Santorum using and argument for Seperation in defence of his view that there should not be Seperation. Somewhere along the line he's got confused.

[fj1200]

Lathe reason for this thread is to so Santorum using and argument for Seperation in defence of his view that there should not be Seperation. Somewhere along the line he's got confused.

Probably right after reading the preceding sentence.

[Noir]

Probably right after reading the preceding sentence.

iPhone typing plus work leads to many Typeos, but they're almost always corrected a few mins later when I get another chance.

[RadiomanATL]

Maybe the quote above would have more accurate of his position. I think he has a perfect idea of what it actually means to him.

So basically Santorum made up the meaning in what Kennedy was trying to say and called it a paraphrase as a thin veil of an excuse for totally changing the meaning?

And all of Santorum's posturing ignores completely the context of what was going on at the time in the nation and in Kennedy's campaign. As one of the first (actual first?) catholics running for POTUS, Kennedy was facing a whispering campaign against him. People were saying that the office of POTUS would wind up being just an extension of the Vatican...papists were going to take over our government, etc.

By saying what he did, Kennedy was attempting to say "Yes, I am catholic, but my personal beliefs should not and will not take precedence over the law of the land and the duty of upholding the constitution". In effect, a wall between the government, and (his) church.

Also, if Santorum is all about saying that Kennedy's thoughts on the subject were wrong I wonder what he would have to say about these other people and the views that they had which mirrors Kennedy's.

"I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be non-sectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools.

Theodore Roosevelt

By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars. Throughout our two hundred plus years, public policy debate has focused on political and economic issues, on which there can be compromise.

Barry Goldwater

The divorce between church and state should be absolute.

James Garfield

We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.

Ronald Reagan

In their times, these were all prominent Republicans. Even today, Republicans running for office are wary of contradicting Goldwater and Reagan. However all of them said essentially the exact same thing as Kennedy. Santorum is going after the left's "Reagan" in his pandering. Forgetting that the actual Reagan had the exact same intent as Kennedy.

[RadiomanATL]

I should also add that it is a veiled attack on Romney and his religion. Romney faces much the same kind of criticism that Kennedy did, and will likely be forced to make the same kind of statements that Kennedy did. So santorum is preempting Romneys argument.