Discussion about Martin/Zimmerman debate

[Wind Song]

Just sayin.

If you're gonna say something, say it.

[Wind Song]

No you can't. I haven't posted a premise that is contrary to the facts. In fact, I've been a proponent of waiting until the facts are in rather than jump to unsubstantiated conclusions.

By all means, tell us what "facts" you have. FACT: Zimmerman KILLED an unarmed teen. FACT: the kid was on his way home from 7-11. FACT: the screams for help are NOT Zimmerman. FACT: Witnesses claim the screaming stopped with the sound of gunshot.

FACT: Zimmerman described as "suspicious" a young man who was black and wearing a "hoodie". FACT: Zimmerman said THESE ASSHOLES ALWAYS GET AWAY, just after he reported the race of his "suspicious" character.

FACT: Zimmerman said there was "something wrong with Martin and that he thought he was on drugs". FACT: Martin wasn't on drugs.

[Mr. P]

If you're gonna say something, say it.

OK. Either ya can't comprehend what you read or you ignore the facts. How's that, better?

[Dilloduck]

By all means, tell us what "facts" you have. FACT: Zimmerman KILLED an unarmed teen. FACT: the kid was on his way home from 7-11. FACT: the screams for help are NOT Zimmerman. FACT: Witnesses claim the screaming stopped with the sound of gunshot.

FACT: Zimmerman described as "suspicious" a young man who was black and wearing a "hoodie". FACT: Zimmerman said THESE ASSHOLES ALWAYS GET AWAY, just after he reported the race of his "suspicious" character.

FACT: Zimmerman said there was "something wrong with Martin and that he thought he was on drugs". FACT: Martin wasn't on drugs.

FACT: You only posted a partial list of facts

FACT: All facts need to be known to discover the truth

[Missileman]

By all means, tell us what "facts" you have. FACT: Zimmerman KILLED an unarmed teen. FACT: the kid was on his way home from 7-11. FACT: the screams for help are NOT Zimmerman. FACT: Witnesses claim the screaming stopped with the sound of gunshot.

FACT: Zimmerman described as "suspicious" a young man who was black and wearing a "hoodie". FACT: Zimmerman said THESE ASSHOLES ALWAYS GET AWAY, just after he reported the race of his "suspicious" character.

FACT: Zimmerman said there was "something wrong with Martin and that he thought he was on drugs". FACT: Martin wasn't on drugs.

Some of your facts aren't actually fact. According to the witness, it was Zimmerman screaming for help. Once Martin was down, there would be no need for Zimmerman to continue screaming, so the fact that the screaming stopped AFTER the shot proves nothing, especially doesn't prove that Martin was the one screaming for help.

Zimmerman didn't say anything about Martin being black until the 911 dispatcher asked him. The only thing that proves is that Zimmerman's not night blind.

[Thunderknuckles]

I find it interesting that in the discussion of FACTS, those who side against Zimmerman leave out the FACT that an eyewitness saw Martin beating Zimmerman which the police backed up with their statements that Zimmerman was bloodied on his face, head, and had grass stains on the back of his shirt which is wholly consistent with getting your ass kicked. WS is just one example. I was listening to Randi Rhodes this morning on the radio rant about the affair and she also neglected to mention this.

Now, I'm not going to take a side. That's the jury's job. But, if you're gonna talk about FACTS, at least have the intellectual honesty to put forth ALL OF THE FACTS you know and make your argument. It's not like this FACT can't be refuted. But, to neglect it smells of a discriminatory approach to the argument and we all know how evil discrimination is...

[DragonStryk72]

I could say the same to you.

What fact? You have not one fact that proves your assertion, but you literally ignore what people say to reiterate this point. Literally nothing else about this kid mattered to you except that he was black, it's the only thing you keep reasserting. No one's agreeing with Zimmerman's shooting an unarmed kid, but there is literally no evidence of Zimmerman being a racist.

We prove he used no racist language? He shot him cause he's black.

We prove that when he described the kid as black, it was because the 911 operator directly asked if he was black, white, Asian, or Hispanic? He shot him cause he's black.

What precise facts would have to come out before you will admit that it was not a racially motivated shooting? What is with this insane prejudice you have against Zimmerman, anyhow?

[DragonStryk72]

By all means, tell us what "facts" you have.

FACT: Zimmerman KILLED an unarmed teen.

Does not prove it was a racist killing.

FACT: the kid was on his way home from 7-11.

Does not prove it was a racist killing.

FACT: the screams for help are NOT Zimmerman.

Which facts support this? Because the facts we have say that an eyewitness actually saw Zimmerman, and heard him calling for help. Also does not prove it was a racist killing.

FACT: Witnesses claim the screaming stopped with the sound of gunshot.

Uh huh, one way or another, the fights over when one man is dead, and there's only one other person in the fight. Also does not prove it was a racist killing.

FACT: Zimmerman described as "suspicious" a young man who was black and wearing a "hoodie".

Okay, except for the FACT: Zimmerman was specifically asked for the race of Martin by the 911 operator, to which Zimmerman replied, "He looks black." This does not prove it was a racist killing. That's like calling me a racist because I describe Wesley Snipes as black.

FACT: Zimmerman said THESE ASSHOLES ALWAYS GET AWAY, just after he reported the race of his "suspicious" character.

Note the lack of the word Nigger, and as I posted and you ignored, hoodrats are a common issue in middle to upper class neighborhood, a sort of wannabe gang. Now, does this mean that Martin was one? No, because I have no facts to ascertain that, but it is a possible theory on why it looked suspicious, because why then didn't he call in every other black person that went to 7-11 that day, then track them down to start a fight? Again, not stating that Martin was doing anything wrong, because again, I don't have facts to ascertain that.

So, again, this does not prove it was a racist killing.

FACT: Zimmerman said there was "something wrong with Martin and that he thought he was on drugs". FACT: Martin wasn't on drugs.

So you mean a human being was wrong? Oh dear me, it cannot be, we are simply perfect at all times.[/sarcasm] He said he was acting weird, which could be entirely true. Maybe he was walking weird, like when you get done with a really strenuous workout, or he was just goofing since he was "alone", and maybe having a conversation with himself, which would look weird.It's still not enough to go on for what Zimmerman did.

But again, it does not prove it was a racist killing.

[DragonStryk72]

I find it interesting that in the discussion of FACTS, those who side against Zimmerman leave out the FACT that an eyewitness saw Martin beating Zimmerman which the police backed up with their statements that Zimmerman was bloodied on his face, head, and had grass stains on the back of his shirt which is wholly consistent with getting your ass kicked. WS is just one example. I was listening to Randi Rhodes this morning on the radio rant about the affair and she also neglected to mention this.

Now, I'm not going to take a side. That's the jury's job. But, if you're gonna talk about FACTS, at least have the intellectual honesty to put forth ALL OF THE FACTS you know and make your argument. It's not like this FACT can't be refuted. But, to neglect it smells of a discriminatory approach to the argument and we all know how evil discrimination is...

1. because a gun in a fist fight is a cheap coward's trick, so he doesn't get off on that one.

2. We still don't have any sort of witness to who actually started the fight in the first place, or what the state of the fight was at the time of the gunshot, since even the witness you named was not present for those two events.

[Wind Song]

Some of your facts aren't actually fact. According to the witness, it was Zimmerman screaming for help. Once Martin was down, there would be no need for Zimmerman to continue screaming, so the fact that the screaming stopped AFTER the shot proves nothing, especially doesn't prove that Martin was the one screaming for help.

Zimmerman didn't say anything about Martin being black until the 911 dispatcher asked him. The only thing that proves is that Zimmerman's not night blind.

Fact: Witnesses contradict each other. Fact: Experts prove the screams were NOT Zimmerman. Fact: LE advised Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin. Fact: Zimmerman followed Martin.

[Wind Song]

FACT: You only posted a partial list of facts

FACT: All facts need to be known to discover the truth

Fact: All facts aren't known, Martin isn't alive to tell his own version.

[jimnyc]

Fact: Witnesses contradict each other. Fact: Experts prove the screams were NOT Zimmerman. Fact: LE advised Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin. Fact: Zimmerman followed Martin.

There was only ONE direct eyewitness, and the evidence in the case all points to his version being true along with Zimmerman. "Experts" have stated the screaming had a 48% of being Zimmerman, but didn't rule out the possibility. I don't remember what they said about the possibility of the screaming being Trayvon, what did they say about that, WS? Zimmerman following or not following Martin doesn't mean anything no matter how you look at it.

You never want to discuss the gash on the back of Zimmerman's head, or his broken nose, nor the grass stains and wet on his backside from Trayvon likely being on top of him. Nor do you like to discuss the fact that one person actually watched Trayvon beating the crap out of Zimmerman while on top of him, totally backing up what Zimmerman has stated.

There is a lot to criticize Zimmerman for, but in Florida it would appear that all of his actions that evening were legal, whether you disagree with them or not. There's also a lot to criticize about Martin, but you never want to discuss that.

[Dilloduck]

Fact: All facts aren't known, Martin isn't alive to tell his own version.

Murdered people seldom get that opportunity but I'm sure if he were alive he could clear all this up for us. We would just believe whatever HE says.

[Wind Song]

Murdered people seldom get that opportunity but I'm sure if he were alive he could clear all this up for us. We would just believe whatever HE says.

I'm sure you would never believe an innocent high school student was murdered by a paranoid, racist nut. Zimmerman was previously fired from a security guard job for using too much force. (He picked a woman up and threw her). Zimmerman had other violent episodes prior to killing Trayvon Martin. Former co-workers describe Zimmerman as a "Jekyl and Hyde".

Zimmerman attacked a police officer, and he has a DV incident in his past.

[Wind Song]

There was only ONE direct eyewitness, and the evidence in the case all points to his version being true along with Zimmerman. "Experts" have stated the screaming had a 48% of being Zimmerman, but didn't rule out the possibility. I don't remember what they said about the possibility of the screaming being Trayvon, what did they say about that, WS? Zimmerman following or not following Martin doesn't mean anything no matter how you look at it.

You never want to discuss the gash on the back of Zimmerman's head, or his broken nose, nor the grass stains and wet on his backside from Trayvon likely being on top of him. Nor do you like to discuss the fact that one person actually watched Trayvon beating the crap out of Zimmerman while on top of him, totally backing up what Zimmerman has stated.

There is a lot to criticize Zimmerman for, but in Florida it would appear that all of his actions that evening were legal, whether you disagree with them or not. There's also a lot to criticize about Martin, but you never want to discuss that.

There are several witness accounts. I see you only believe the one that supports Zimmerman.