Objective learning, religious style.

[Wind Song]

I apologized for what was necessary to apologize for.

You are completely clueless. I can't talk to you anymore today.

[jimnyc]

Look, I think it's great that some men take parenting seriously.

And I think it's great that so many men take it seriously too. I have a soon to be 12yr old son. I couldn't imagine life without him.

I couldn't imagine my wife having told me I had no say in the matter, to open up my wallet and brace myself for her decision.

[Wind Song]

We're done.

[jimnyc]

You are completely clueless. I can't talk to you anymore today.

Whatever. Did you expect me to send a dozen roses with my apology? It's really quite simple. I have stated some things to you today. One of my posts was way out of line, and I apologized for stooping to such a level. If you accept it, great, if not, your choice. I don't need an acceptance to know my words were wrong and to know it was the right thing to do in apologizing.

[tailfins]

I've advocated equal rights for men, that both should have a say, that they should make a mutual decision... All things along those lines. WHO is saying anywhere that men want to be the sole deciders and tell women what to do?

Neither should have a say. Make a mutual decision to murder their children? If they do, may God judge them harshly. And if possible, the law as well.

Whatever. Did you expect me to send a dozen roses with my apology?

That would be sexual harassment.

[jimnyc]

We're done.

Oh. No. I'm gonna surely lose sleep tonight!

Bring up any perceived rights a man should have and WS flies away! Toodles!

[Wind Song]

Whatever. Did you expect me to send a dozen roses with my apology? It's really quite simple. I have stated some things to you today. One of my posts was way out of line, and I apologized for stooping to such a level. If you accept it, great, if not, your choice. I don't need an acceptance to know my words were wrong and to know it was the right thing to do in apologizing.

Yes. Send some roses.

[jimnyc]

Neither should have a say. Make a mutual decision to murder their children? If they do, may God judge them harshly. And if possible, the law as well.

Well, we agree there too, but her convoluted brain can't take too many subjects at once. I was just stating that 'whatever' decision is made, "I" think it should be done together, mutually and/or with respect to the significant other.

[Wind Song]

Holly Near--Singing for Our Lives--For Choice:

[jimnyc]

Yes. Send some roses.

Ok, with love:

[tailfins]

We're done.

[Wind Song]

Well, we agree there too, but her convoluted brain can't take too many subjects at once. I was just stating that 'whatever' decision is made, "I" think it should be done together, mutually and/or with respect to the significant other.

Some men don't deserve that respect. They just aren't that involved.

[jimnyc]

Some men don't deserve that respect. They just aren't that involved.

Some women don't deserve that respect. They just aren't that involved.

Look, it truly sucks that by God's design the woman is the carrier of the baby. But it still takes 2 to have a baby, takes 2 to be parents, takes 2 to make it right... I've seen just as many irresponsible and disrespectful women. You don't scoff at all men's potential rights because of a few. Not all men should be penalized.

[Trigg]

Why shouldn't the man have a say? I'd prefer he did have a say, especially if they are in a committed relationship. Men want more rights than women. They want to tell the woman what her decision should be. That's wrong.

Making the decision together is one thing. Telling the woman she MUST have the baby no matter what she feels is right for her is wrong.

What man here has said that?????? I've read this entire thread and NO WHERE does anyone advocate that a man have more rights than a women.

Men can either help pay for the abortion or pay for the support of the child until the child is an adult, and hopefully co-parent. But men don't get the right to tell the woman what she MUST do.

It's her womb, not his. He doesn't own her.

I don't believe ANYONE, Jim included, has said that.

People have pointed out the fairness of the law.

Jim has questioned repeatedly WHY women want all the power, especially in committed relationships. As the law stands a women can choose. without discussion. to carry a pregnancy and DEMAND the man pay for a child he does not want. Do you advocate that a women can "tell a man what he MUST do" in regards to an unwanted pregnancy??

[Wind Song]

Some women don't deserve that respect. They just aren't that involved.

Look, it truly sucks that by God's design the woman is the carrier of the baby. But it still takes 2 to have a baby, takes 2 to be parents, takes 2 to make it right... I've seen just as many irresponsible and disrespectful women. You don't scoff at all men's potential rights because of a few. Not all men should be penalized.

If a woman doesn't respect the "sperm" rights of her BF and elects to terminate her pregnancy without informing him, so what? Are you saying some casual fling deserves to be involved in her decision? I don't.

And YOU don't get to be involved in other people's intimate business.