Hunting - sport, food, enjoyment, cruelty?

[Dilloduck]

I beleive morals are behaviors that are learned by children from their parents or caretakers.

http://listverse.com/2008/03/07/10-m...eral-children/

[revelarts]

I beleive morals are behaviors that are learned by children from their parents or caretakers.

http://listverse.com/2008/03/07/10-m...eral-children/

whoah,
very interesting link. incredible how imitative humans are.
But I wonder, if many of those are true,
it's almost impossible to tell if morals play into their thoughts or have an effect on their actions don't you think? How could you determine one way or another. It's obvious they are not living up to their intellectual capacities either, it does not mean they don't have innate human intellect. these seem to me cases where their extremes circumstances make poor test subjects/examples on this question.

[Dilloduck]

I think they are the perfect beings to determine if humans have innate morals. They are free of any nurture influence by humans with morals. No suggestions have been made to them by people as to how they should behave or feel. They only survived by imitating survival techniques of other living beings arounds them. No guilt-no shame.

[revelarts]

I think they are the perfect beings to determine if humans have innate morals. They are free of any nurture influence by humans with morals. No suggestions have been made to them by people as to how they should behave or feel. They only survived by imitating survival techniques of other living beings arounds them. No guilt-no shame.

But how can we know if they have No guilt or shame?

[Dilloduck]

But how do can we know if they have No guilt or shame?

We don't. That's why I asked earlier about the moral motions you described and I haven't seen enough evidence to know if feral humans express anything that could interpreted as emotion.

[revelarts]

We don't. That's why I asked earlier about the moral motions you described and I haven't seen enough evidence to know if feral humans express anything that could interpreted as emotion.

well, couple of things,

One of the things that seem common among these examples of feral humans is no language.
now that's interesting because it goes to the question human origins or the origins of human society.
Every group of humans we know anything about has a language of some kind. It is a Hardwired part of being HomoSapianSapian. it seems Unless we find a purely feral or amoral like society of somekind somewhere at sometime i think were kinda left only assuming that man is a blank moral slate. There is no society like that, that i know of. Language assumes some human contacts and all of the human societies that we know of have some morals of some kind.

And as far a individual feral humans go , we also know that many humans left in isolation often go mad. And the morals of a a person who's possibly a bit insane is not something I think we should use as a base here.

[Dilloduck]

well, couple of things,

One of the things that seem common among these examples of feral humans is no language.
now that's interesting because it goes to the question human origins or the origins of human society.
Every group of humans we know anything about has a language of some kind. It is a Hardwired part of being HomoSapianSapian. it seems Unless we find a purely feral or amoral like society of somekind somewhere at sometime i think were kinda left only assuming that man is a blank moral slate. There is no society like that, that i know of. Language assumes some human contacts and all of the human societies that we know of have some morals of some kind.

And as far a individual feral humans go , we also know that many humans left in isolation often go mad. And the morals of a a person who's possibly a bit insane is not something I think we should use as a base here.

Insane or feral humans have morals ? I figure morals are just the norms that groups of humans sort of set up as a means of getting along and thriving as a group.

[revelarts]

Insane or feral humans have morals ? I figure morals are just the norms that groups of humans sort of set up as a means of getting along and thriving as a group.

I guess we'll start to circle here,
that's the question, as you point out it's a hard to say if Feral humans have morals or not but they are the outliers of humanity. Basically All other humans that we know of DO. To ground the idea that humans are -at base- amoral on feral humans, considering just the 2 problems I mentioned, seems shaky.
And yes Humans are social creatures and if we were, at base, amoral it seems that there would be examples of societies that could have or can survive and thrive that way as well. Just as the feral humans and animals do. Animals get along and thrive without the help of morals, why would humans make them up in every culture we know of in all times in all places, unless they were innate?

[Dilloduck]

I guess we'll start to circle here,
that's the question, as you point out it's a hard to say if Feral humans have morals or not but they are the outliers of humanity. Basically All other humans that we know of DO. To ground the idea that humans are -at base- amoral on feral humans, considering just the 2 problems I mentioned, seems shaky.
And yes Humans are social creatures and if we were, at base, amoral it seems that there would be examples of societies that could have or can survive and thrive that way as well. Just as the feral humans and animals do. Animals get along and thrive without the help of morals, why would humans make them up in every culture we know of in all times in all places, unless they were innate?

Neccesity.
The survival instinct in most assuredly innate. Morals could be the rules that societies need so they all don't kill each other. Or they could be the rules societies need to that other societies don't impede or threaten their survival.

[Wind Song]

What does the existence of God have to do with hunting?

Nothing. I suppose that some people might say that God provided animals for people to hunt and eat. That's part of the God lore. It doesn't prove the existence of God.

[tailfins]

Nothing. I suppose that some people might say that God provided animals for people to hunt and eat. That's part of the God lore. It doesn't prove the existence of God.

H0: God does not exists
H1: God does exists

Is there an H2? The next step is to write a case for H0 and a case for H1 and see which is strongest.

Of course in the lefty world it works like this:

H0: I'm right
H1: Throw a fit

Conclusion: No thought required.

[Wind Song]

H0: God does not exists
H1: God does exists

Is there an H2? The next step is to write a case for H0 and a case for H1 and see which is strongest.

Of course in the lefty world it works like this:

H0: I'm right
H1: Throw a fit

Conclusion: No thought required.

I'm curious. What motivated you to make the "leftie world" comment? What are you trying to get out of that?

[tailfins]

I'm curious. What motivated you to make the "leftie world" comment? What are you trying to get out of that?

Being so dismissive about God as to refer to it as "lore" shows a lack of thought. I ask those that dismiss God so easily where they get their basis on how they treat people? How they are feeling that day? If one has no basis on how they treat people, is it anything goes?

[Wind Song]

Being so dismissive about God as to refer to it as "lore" shows a lack of thought. I ask those that dismiss God so easily where they get their basis on how they treat people? How they are feeling that day? If one has no basis on how they treat people, is it anything goes?

There are plenty of good reasons that atheists treat fellow human beings well. My use of the term, "lore" was not intended to be offensive. The definition of the word, "lore" means:A body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth.

I'm sorry if you feel offended by the term.

Aren't you the same guy that was making sarcastic comments about liberals? What kind of thought went into YOUR post?

[revelarts]

Neccesity.
The survival instinct in most assuredly innate. Morals could be the rules that societies need so they all don't kill each other. Or they could be the rules societies need to that other societies don't impede or threaten their survival.

Then your saying that HUMANS survival instinct is to be moral or is connected to morals or
is moral.
Which is a sideways route to get to what i was saying, that Humans DO have an innate moral sense.