What a vile, scumbag organization!

[jimnyc]

But there comes a point where someone asks a question that requires more than opinion, and the discussion goes right to the sewer.

I'm not condemning anything you did, posted, or asked. I think you've been pretty darn civil since you came here. But to enter a thread and immediately refer to everyone as "teabaggers" is not merely asking a question that requires more than an opinion. If you're referring to yourself and your own inquiries, you have my apologies, but this Soze character came into this thread to troll, and I suspect thus far more than just this thread.

[jimnyc]

I've reinstated KS to the thread. I'm of the belief that he/she is trolling, but I suppose I could be wrong. I'll let his/her future posts answer that question. But I don't want people already crying favoritism/bias and all that other crap.

[Howard Roark]

I'm not condemning anything you did, posted, or asked. I think you've been pretty darn civil since you came here. But to enter a thread and immediately refer to everyone as "teabaggers" is not merely asking a question that requires more than an opinion. If you're referring to yourself and your own inquiries, you have my apologies, but this Soze character came into this thread to troll, and I suspect thus far more than just this thread.

Nope..I didn't think you were referring to me. I have noticed that the term tbaggers is automatically assessed as a personal attack here, even though the term wasn't aimed at a member....rather, the group.

It's no different than the epithets used to describe liberals here.

If you don't want the term used at all, then it could be in the rules, or it could be filtered out.

If not, then I believe the general use of the term should not be construed by teaparty members here, as a personal attack



This is her post:

NO they aren't. There is no medical reason to have these procedures...only punitive, religious reasons. There is no reason for this other than an effort to thwart a woman's choice and her legal rights. This should get Tbaggers up in arms..but the fact that it doesn't points to the fact that the baggers are nothing if not a culture war organization and anything but grass roots.

Now, I read this as a comment about the politicians in the states that are ramming through this moronic legislation. Typically, we see politicians who either ran as teaparty, or affirm the concepts espoused by same.

I find it ironic that the 'small govt' crowd affirms legislation that address both...a very personal choice...and a very personal healthcare issue.


At no point was the medical community involved in this process. It's punitive to both the patient, and the provider.

If you hate the thought of abortion, at least admit that the legislation is nothing more than punitive, and that you agree that it should be.


And the suggestion that women (in general) take abortion lightly, is despicable.

[jimnyc]

Nope..I didn't think you were referring to me. I have noticed that the term tbaggers is automatically assessed as a personal attack here, even though the term wasn't aimed at a member....rather, the group.

It's no different than the epithets used to describe liberals here.

If you don't want the term used at all, then it could be in the rules, or it could be filtered out.

If not, then I believe the general use of the term should not be construed by teaparty members here, as a personal attack

All fair enough. But just as an Fyi - we have the "C" word filtered here, the one and only word filtered. While I'm no fan of being referred to as a teabagger, or bagger, I won't moderate based on the terminology, and didn't. I initially removed him as It appeared he was solely trying to start trouble, but I'm willing to admit I could have rushed to judgment.

Now, I read this as a comment about the politicians in the states that are ramming through this moronic legislation. Typically, we see politicians who either ran as teaparty, or affirm the concepts espoused by same.

I find it ironic that the 'small govt' crowd affirms legislation that address both...a very personal choice...and a very personal healthcare issue.


At no point was the medical community involved in this process. It's punitive to both the patient, and the provider.

If you hate the thought of abortion, at least admit that the legislation is nothing more than punitive, and that you agree that it should be.


And the suggestion that women (in general) take abortion lightly, is despicable.

As far as I can recall, there are like 18 states with similar legislation. I would 'possibly' consider a vaginal sonogram to be punitive, but I wouldn't consider the typical to be punitive. It IS a "life" being taken, or at least the sonogram can determine IF and at what stage a life is being taken. While I agree the woman has rights to her body, I'm of the belief that SOMEONE needs to stand up for the rights of the unborn child. If the mother won't do so, who will?

[Wind Song]

How does a doctor know how many weeks pregnant the woman is?

Menstral cycles vary, some women dont keep track and there is a possibility a woman could lie about how long it's been because she really wants an abortion. Do you think it would be OK o have a few late term abortions occur; that the rights of the fetus are determined by the woman, not necessarily the stage of development?

That's true. You'd have to ask a doctor how they determine how many months pregnant a woman is if she's that out of it that she really doesn't know.

No, I don't think late term abortions are appropriate unless there is a medical risk of carrying the pregnancy to term.

[Howard Roark]

All fair enough. But just as an Fyi - we have the "C" word filtered here, the one and only word filtered. While I'm no fan of being referred to as a teabagger, or bagger, I won't moderate based on the terminology, and didn't. I initially removed him as It appeared he was solely trying to start trouble, but I'm willing to admit I could have rushed to judgment.



As far as I can recall, there are like 18 states with similar legislation. I would 'possibly' consider a vaginal sonogram to be punitive, but I wouldn't consider the typical to be punitive. It IS a "life" being taken, or at least the sonogram can determine IF and at what stage a life is being taken. While I agree the woman has rights to her body, I'm of the belief that SOMEONE needs to stand up for the rights of the unborn child. If the mother won't do so, who will?

I posted a link...that nobody was interested in checking...from Texas. Now, the doctor is required to do a sonogram instead of a lesser staff member. As well, the woman must now go home, and come back the next day.

That's clearly not 'small govt.', nor is it necessary. It does advance the goal of having clinics shut down, and attempt to have less women seek the procedure.

I agree with your assessment re. standard sonogram. However, there are a couple of points. In very early stage abortions, a standard sonogram wouldn't show much. As well, the reason for the forced sonogram is to force the woman to see the fetus, not for any 'need' in order to perform the procedure.

The act of undergoing an abortion is NOT taken lightly by the overwhelming majority of women. It's a humiliating, extremely uncomfortable procedure. I'm sure most women suffer emotional stress before, and certainly after.


What I find is that anti abortion people always think of a late term procedure. Personally, I believe that once a functioning brain/nerve network is established, where the fetus can feel 'pain', an abortion should be illegal unless there are mitigating factors.


I see no reason for outlawing morning after pills, for a woman who thinks she may have become pregnant from unprotected sex the night before.

[Wind Song]

I only reject idiocy, which is on full display here. You can choose to discuss and debate things with people, or you can choose to come barging in here with your insults. Only one of us looks like an asshole. Oh, and you chose that term all for yourself.

Hey Jim,

Has it occurred to you that newbies have to come on like gangbusters around here?

[Wind Song]

I've reinstated KS to the thread. I'm of the belief that he/she is trolling, but I suppose I could be wrong. I'll let his/her future posts answer that question. But I don't want people already crying favoritism/bias and all that other crap.

This is a new member. KS will settle in. I'm happy to see some new liberal members here. How about extending your friendship? I've had to reach out and do that for every friend I have here.

[Wind Song]

Again, hundreds of ELECTIVE procedures require crappy procedures prior to the main elective. These are REQUIRED for an ELECTIVE procedure. No difference, other than those electing to have an abortion bitch about the procedural testing needing to be done prior.

It's political. It's not a necessary procedure for a termination to have a sonogram. Your side wants to make a woman have that and pay for it to coerce her into not carrying through with the termination.

Your side pushes, the other side pushes back. This is women's reproductive health politics.

WTF. Why don't you guys just get vasectomies and keep women from getting knocked up?

[jimnyc]

Hey Jim,

Has it occurred to you that newbies have to come on like gangbusters around here?

This is a new member. KS will settle in. I'm happy to see some new liberal members here.

I fully understand that new members feel inundated if they post an opposing view. And I really don't even care if they "come on like gangbusters". But immediately resorting to insults, to an entire board, is wrong. If someone insults a new member, the new member is just as entitled to give it back. But it looks odd when someone comes here out of the blue and goes out of their way to try and insult everyone.

[jimnyc]

It's political. It's not a necessary procedure for a termination to have a sonogram. Your side wants to make a woman have that and pay for it to coerce her into not carrying through with the termination.

Your side pushes, the other side pushes back. This is women's reproductive health politics.

WTF. Why don't you guys just get vasectomies and keep women from getting knocked up?

I'm from the land of "Personal Responsibility" and don't automatically think it's one or the other. BOTH have a responsibility to take precautions. It's silly to solely push it towards the men if women are "getting knocked up".

[Howard Roark]

It's political. It's not a necessary procedure for a termination to have a sonogram. Your side wants to make a woman have that and pay for it to coerce her into not carrying through with the termination.

Your side pushes, the other side pushes back. This is women's reproductive health politics.

WTF. Why don't you guys just get vasectomies and keep women from getting knocked up?

Damn...that's a different approach.

How about a mandatory colonoscopy before they can get viagra?

[Wind Song]

I fully understand that new members feel inundated if they post an opposing view. And I really don't even care if they "come on like gangbusters". But immediately resorting to insults, to an entire board, is wrong. If someone insults a new member, the new member is just as entitled to give it back. But it looks odd when someone comes here out of the blue and goes out of their way to try and insult everyone.

All you can do is what you do best, Jim. Tell it like it is. Let him know what works and doesn't work. And consider that when someone is new and they come into something they don't understand they make their best observation of what's going on and that can involve a negative perception and insults.

[Wind Song]

Damn...that's a different approach.

How about a mandatory colonoscopy before they can get viagra?

Woo hoo. See how they feel about that!

[Wind Song]

I'm from the land of "Personal Responsibility" and don't automatically think it's one or the other. BOTH have a responsibility to take precautions. It's silly to solely push it towards the men if women are "getting knocked up".

Men have no responsibilities for conception? If so, STFU about abortion.