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    Keeping your pants zipped/legs closed until you can afford children has an uncanny way of helping you stay out of poverty. As does working at your schoolwork and having a good work ethic in general. Generations of immigrants have done it. It's not rocket science.
    After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown

    “Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
    -Abbey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    Keeping your pants zipped/legs closed until you can afford children has an uncanny way of helping you stay out of poverty. As does working at your schoolwork and having a good work ethic in general. Generations of immigrants have done it. It's not rocket science.
    Bah - C'mon...you're SO OLD SKEWL! People are GONNA have sex! Instead of telling them information to HELP them - let's coddle their behavior and just hand out condoms at schools and stuff! GOD FORBID a Conservative try to teach the TRUTH of your words to people too self-centered to listen.

    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Bah - C'mon...you're SO OLD SKEWL! People are GONNA have sex! Instead of telling them information to HELP them - let's coddle their behavior and just hand out condoms at schools and stuff! GOD FORBID a Conservative try to teach the TRUTH of your words to people too self-centered to listen.

    Dude, condoms are 99 percent effective at stopping sperm cells from entering the uterus. Save me the "abstinence is 100 percent effective" one-liner. People ARE going to have sex regardless of your freaky insistence to the contrary that if we preach enough about it all unmarried people will suddenly see the light and adopt a monastic lifestyle. You can't keep believing that policy based on ideology alone will work in the real world. In the real world people--unmarried people no less--have sex all the time and they always have and always will. Our bodies are built for it. That's not a "self-centered" comment, it's real life. The way I see it, we've got two options. Either we make birth control available to people, teach our kids about it AND continue to teach that abstinence is the best policy until they're married and we see unwanted birthrates decline, OR we shun birth control based on self-righteous, unrealistic ideology, ignore reality, preach abstinence-only dogma and continue to see unwanted birthrates skyrocket out of control. I've made my choice already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    People ARE going to have sex regardless of your freaky insistence to the contrary

    Why don't you READ before making-up your mind about what I am or am not insisting upon? Comments like yours above are simply false. Nobody's insisting what you claim.

    Here's one for you!

    People ARE going to have UNPROTECTED sex regardless of how much "Information" we through at them, OR how convenient we make condoms, regardless of your freaky insistence to the contrary.

    You prefer to treat the symptoms - I look to treat the condition. That's the fundamental difference between you and me.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Why don't you READ before making-up your mind about what I am or am not insisting upon? Comments like yours above are simply false. Nobody's insisting what you claim.

    Here's one for you!

    People ARE going to have UNPROTECTED sex regardless of how much "Information" we through at them, OR how convenient we make condoms, regardless of your freaky insistence to the contrary.

    You prefer to treat the symptoms - I look to treat the condition. That's the fundamental difference between you and me.
    Sure people would still have unprotected sex, but some who might have gone-in unprotected before might use b.c. if it were readily and easily available. If a girl who didn't know anything about b.c. pills suddenly became educated about them she might choose to go on the pill. That's one-less potential unwanted pregnancy. If a guy who had never been introduced to them before suddenly became educated about condoms or about the female menstrual cycle (something they never taught us guys about here in GA schools) he would have knowledge that he could use to avoid unwanted pregnancy. I never said easily available birth control would completely do away with cases of unwanted pregnancy, but it would certainly lead to a decline in those cases. If we only teach abstinence-only dogma we're completely ignoring another proven line of defense, leaving a problem spot in our society. i.e. If a person were to only have abstinence-only education then that person gets into a situation where they are going to have sex, they could ignore their abstinence-only education. If they had birth control, they could also choose to ignore it, but atleast there were two lines of defense against unprotected sex rather than only one. Shattered is right, it all comes down to personal responsibility. Will you indulge or will you "go monk." Most people will indulge I think, so why not atleast make it easy for them to get condoms?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    Sure people would still have unprotected sex, but some who might have gone-in unprotected before might use b.c. if it were readily and easily available. If a girl who didn't know anything about b.c. pills suddenly became educated about them she might choose to go on the pill. That's one-less potential unwanted pregnancy. If a guy who had never been introduced to them before suddenly became educated about condoms or about the female menstrual cycle (something they never taught us guys about here in GA schools) he would have knowledge that he could use to avoid unwanted pregnancy. I never said easily available birth control would completely do away with cases of unwanted pregnancy, but it would certainly lead to a decline in those cases. If we only teach abstinence-only dogma we're completely ignoring another proven line of defense, leaving a problem spot in our society. i.e. If a person were to only have abstinence-only education then that person gets into a situation where they are going to have sex, they are ignoring their abstinence-only education. If they had birth control, they could also choose to ignore it, but atleast there were two lines of defense against unprotected sex rather than only one. Shattered is right, it all comes down to personal responsibility. Will you indulge or will you "go monk." Most people will indulge I think, so why not atleast make it easy for them to get condoms?
    You are very good at assuming-away the problems with your line of thinking.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    You are very good at assuming-away the problems with your line of thinking.
    Abstinence-only is based completely on assumption. Assumption that people will listen. Assumption that people will ignore their bodies. Assumption that people will ignore their lovers. Assumption that all people are pious... The list goes on and on. Give me a break with your judgemental little one-line posts based upon nothing more than your own self-righteousness. Pleez
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    Dude, condoms are 99 percent effective at stopping sperm cells from entering the uterus. Save me the "abstinence is 100 percent effective" one-liner. People ARE going to have sex regardless of your freaky insistence to the contrary that if we preach enough about it all unmarried people will suddenly see the light and adopt a monastic lifestyle. You can't keep believing that policy based on ideology alone will work in the real world. In the real world people--unmarried people no less--have sex all the time and they always have and always will. Our bodies are built for it. That's not a "self-centered" comment, it's real life. The way I see it, we've got two options. Either we make birth control available to people, teach our kids about it AND continue to teach that abstinence is the best policy until they're married and we see unwanted birthrates decline, OR we shun birth control based on self-righteous, unrealistic ideology, ignore reality, preach abstinence-only dogma and continue to see unwanted birthrates skyrocket out of control. I've made my choice already.

    Funny.. That was at least 100 words, and I didn't see the words "personal responsibility" anywhere in there.. Now granted, I just skimmed it, because I've heard it all before, but.. were those words in there, and I just missed them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    Dude, condoms are 99 percent effective at stopping sperm cells from entering the uterus.

    Hrm....This Chart: http://www.contraceptivetechnology.com/table.html

    Shows Condoms are only about 1-2% more effective than withdrawal.


    Maybe we should simply 'teach' guys to pull-out?
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Hrm....This Chart: http://www.contraceptivetechnology.com/table.html

    Shows Condoms are only about 1-2% more effective than withdrawal.


    Maybe we should simply 'teach' guys to pull-out?
    Funny, I didn't see a statistic for "abstinence-only" effectiveness on that chart. Maybe that's because it's a "faith-based" ideology rather than a realistic form of birth control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    Funny, I didn't see a statistic for "abstinence-only" effectiveness on that chart. Maybe that's because it's a "faith-based" ideology rather than a realistic form of birth control.
    That's stupid. lol...How would that chart show the 'unexpected Pregnancy' rate of people who abstain from sexual intercourse? lmao

    Rule #1 for Libs - When the data doesn't look good for your particular point of view, change the topic; shift people away from YOUR claims and focus the discussion on something ridiculous.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    That's stupid. lol...How would that chart show the 'unexpected Pregnancy' rate of people who abstain from sexual intercourse? lmao

    Rule #1 for Libs - When the data doesn't look good for your particular point of view, change the topic; shift people away from YOUR claims and focus the discussion on something ridiculous.
    Rule #1 for Self-Righteous Conservatives - When a liberal makes an excellent point attack their integrity.

    For the people who abstain from sex, great for them. I hope they're happy in their frustrated, virginal existence. For everybody else abstinence-only sure doesn't do them a lot of good.

    I've got a question for you along the same line of thinking you've presented to me: If abstinence-only works so well and is THE answer, why are there still unwanted pregnancies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaffer
    Science wants to explain things and understand why they happen. Creationists want to use science to justify their own causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagbard Celine View Post
    Dude, condoms are 99 percent effective at stopping sperm cells from entering the uterus. Save me the "abstinence is 100 percent effective" one-liner. People ARE going to have sex regardless of your freaky insistence to the contrary that if we preach enough about it all unmarried people will suddenly see the light and adopt a monastic lifestyle. You can't keep believing that policy based on ideology alone will work in the real world. In the real world people--unmarried people no less--have sex all the time and they always have and always will. Our bodies are built for it. That's not a "self-centered" comment, it's real life. The way I see it, we've got two options. Either we make birth control available to people, teach our kids about it AND continue to teach that abstinence is the best policy until they're married and we see unwanted birthrates decline, OR we shun birth control based on self-righteous, unrealistic ideology, ignore reality, preach abstinence-only dogma and continue to see unwanted birthrates skyrocket out of control. I've made my choice already.
    Regardless your twisting, abstinence IS 100% effective at not only preventing unwanted pregnancies, but the transfer of STD's as well.

    Like it or not, people DID used to have enough morals to exercise a little self-discipline and good judgement.

    Until people like you made it okay to make excuses for being losers instead.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Regardless your twisting, abstinence IS 100% effective at not only preventing unwanted pregnancies, but the transfer of STD's as well.

    Like it or not, people DID used to have enough morals to exercise a little self-discipline and good judgement.

    Until people like you made it okay to make excuses for being losers instead.
    People have been, are and will continue to hump like rabbits. It's the strongest drive we have. Abstinence as public policy is ridiculous because humping is great fun, feels good and can really make your day!
    "Unbloodybreakable" DCI Gene Hunt, 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by diuretic View Post
    People have been, are and will continue to hump like rabbits. It's the strongest drive we have. Abstinence as public policy is ridiculous because humping is great fun, feels good and can really make your day!
    ...and it's all about what's fun and feels good now.. Damn consequences - we can just kill those later, right?

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