Great outdoorsman the real Crocodile Dundee killed by police

[taft2012]

Hitler relied on men like you. "Go round up the Jews and kill them all; it's the law!"

No, he relied upon people like you who see wrong and do nothing about it except piss and moan on the internet.

The difference being between Hitler and the United States of America; WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT AT THE BALLOT BOX.

I realize it is convenient for you to ignore that little factoid.

The simple truth is; the government we have is the one we selected. Do I agree with it all of the time? Hell no, in fact most of the time I disagree with it. That doesn't mean they are oppressive Nazis and that I have go out and start shooting people. That just means that I, and my fellow patriots at the local level, have to start getting our message out better.

The bottom line is I and the other posters in opposition to your Nazi philosophy DO respect the law. We do vote.

So did Hitler and the Nazis. And when they had trouble getting everything exactly the way they wanted it through democratic means, they burned down the Reichstag and picked up weapons.

So in a comparison of you and me; which one sounds more like Hitler when the democratic process fails to delivery everything precisely the way he personally wants it? You or me?

[CSM]

Ok folks, all this "internet balls stuff is kind of fun but really pointless. I do not believe that anyone here is seriously going to gunning for their friends and neighbors, cops, or forum posters ... at least I hope not.

The point I am trying to make is that an unarmed populace is truly at the mercy of any government that decides to oppress it's people. Disarming the population, silencing the opposition,removing undesirables, contolling the media and creating dependencies on said government are all part of the tactics used by tyrants (and tyrants can mean a single individual or a group). Unfortunately, when a government does decide to do that, those who are charged with serving and protecting the nation and it's citizens are placed in a severe moral dilemma. Do they enforce the law and hope that "something" happens to change the law or even the government? Do they leave their position, their livelyhood and means of economic support or do they do their assigned tasks knowing full well they are providing support to the oppressors? Do soldiers fire on fellow citizens? Do policemen arrest and incarcerate people based on immoral and illegal laws created by the despots? Tyrannical governments can only exist if they have support of those trained, equipped and willing to enforce the oppression. That last statement is why many find Obama's statements about a civilian equivalent to our military so frightening. There is also great reliance on the pacifist nature of most people. We tend to want to be left alone to pursue "life, liberty and ... happiness".

Taft raises some really good questions. How do we know when our government has become tyrannical? How do we know whether there is truly an effort underway to subjugate the people or there is just a plethora of stupidity and incompetence of our elected representatives? How do we know when our way of life is so threatened it is beyond recovery at the ballot box? Good questions all. By the way, the divisiveness we see in our own country only serves to aggravate the situation. That divisiveness makes it far easier for our government to head down the road to oppression.

Those of you who have seen me post all these past years know I am no advocate of anti-government, anti-military or anti-establishment efforts. I do, however, have a healthy respect for government along with a healthy skepticism of those who govern. I believe that awareness is the key. Be aware of what our government is doing, be aware of what our elected officials are up to ... and what they stand for. Root out the facts instead of listening to the pundits (many of whom have an agenda). Pay attention to what is news and differentiate that from what is journalistic opinion. Be aware of what our children are being taught, of the moral and ethical standards they are developing as they mature. In addition to being aware, be willing to get involved. I don't mean you have to run for office or join the military or any of that but be willing to present the facts when confronted by spurious or slanted media, campaign ads and so on. Be involved in the education and development of your children. Be involved in your community and the social circles that underpin that community. Resist the urge to "let someone else do it, I'm too busy". If you don't have personal principles and convictions or a moral code to live by, get them. Those steps, in and of themselves may be enough to ensure that we never have to ask ourselves the question listed above and may ensure that we never place those we ask to serve in the moral dilemma that governments create.

[CSM]

No, he relied upon people like you who see wrong and do nothing about it except piss and moan on the internet.

The difference being between Hitler and the United States of America; WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT AT THE BALLOT BOX.

I realize it is convenient for you to ignore that little factoid.

The simple truth is; the government we have is the one we selected. Do I agree with it all of the time? Hell no, in fact most of the time I disagree with it. That doesn't mean they are oppressive Nazis and that I have go out and start shooting people. That just means that I, and my fellow patriots at the local level, have to start getting our message out better.



So did Hitler and the Nazis. And when they had trouble getting everything exactly the way they wanted it through democratic means, they burned down the Reichstag and picked up weapons.

So in a comparison of you and me; which one sounds more like Hitler when the democratic process fails to delivery everything precisely the way he personally wants it? You or me?

Sent you a PM.

[CSM]

No, he relied upon people like you who see wrong and do nothing about it except piss and moan on the internet.

The difference being between Hitler and the United States of America; WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT AT THE BALLOT BOX.

I realize it is convenient for you to ignore that little factoid.

The simple truth is; the government we have is the one we selected. Do I agree with it all of the time? Hell no, in fact most of the time I disagree with it. That doesn't mean they are oppressive Nazis and that I have go out and start shooting people. That just means that I, and my fellow patriots at the local level, have to start getting our message out better.



So did Hitler and the Nazis. And when they had trouble getting everything exactly the way they wanted it through democratic means, they burned down the Reichstag and picked up weapons.

So in a comparison of you and me; which one sounds more like Hitler when the democratic process fails to delivery everything precisely the way he personally wants it? You or me?

The point is, Hitler did indeed come to power through the legal process in place at the time for that country. The point is, after they were installed, they transformed that government into a tyrannical regime bent on the destruction of segments of the population. Those laws requiring that abuse and oppression of legal citizens were enforced by the POLICE (among others). The population (at first) bought into the party line (hope and change, anyone?) and except for a few, stood idly by while their "friends and neighbors" were sent off to the camps or outright executed in the streets by the POLICE. The POLICE (along with elements of the military) enforced the LAW ... laws which were designed to fully oppress the people, ensure the despots in power stayed in power and fully perverted the government for which the people had originally desired and got.

An alternative point (so to speak) is that when extreme laws become SO bad that they encourage the murder of your own citizens, and the ballot box is ineffective, then armed rebellion is a possibly necessary step.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

An alternative point (so to speak) is that when extreme laws become SO bad that they encourage the murder of your own citizens, and the ballot box is ineffective, then armed rebellion is a possibly necessary step.

I think at that point armed rebellion has become the only step to take to attempt to rectify the situation! Our Revolution that birthed this great nation would be a good example of that.
Our government clearly seeks that kind of oppression and has for quite some time now IMHO.
The crossroads could well be the 2012 election and if we get rid of one of the up and coming dictators !
Otherwise I see a future Revolution thats as assuredly coming someday as are taxes...-Tyr

[CSM]

I think at that point armed rebellion has become the only step to take to attempt to rectify the situation! Our Revolution that birthed this great nation would be a good example of that.
Our government clearly seeks that kind of oppression and has for quite some time now IMHO.
The crossroads could well be the 2012 election and if we get rid of one of the up and coming dictators !
Otherwise I see a future Revolution thats as assuredly coming someday as are taxes...-Tyr

There are other alternatives (that is why I said "possibly). Intervention by a foreign power. Mass flight by the populace. Mass civil disobediance, etc. How effective any of those would be is dependent upon how willing the population is to engage in such, how willing the enforcement agencies are to abuse and murder their fellow country men and how willing any foreign power is to intervene. Armed rebellion is a last resort I would think.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

There are other alternatives (that is why I said "possibly). Intervention by a foreign power. Mass flight by the populace. Mass civil disobediance, etc. How effective any of those would be is dependent upon how willing the population is to engage in such, how willing the enforcement agencies are to abuse and murder their fellow country men and how willing any foreign power is to intervene. Armed rebellion is a last resort I would think.

I think its coming because the government intends on forcing it to come(when they are ready). At some point they want to have it out expecting that they will win. Of course not until they have confiscated all or most of the guns. I truly believe if they do that then we will quickly see a full dictatorship emerge . Government has become too large , too powerful and they will not let go of that power without a fight IMHO. In fact, they desperately seek to greatly enlarge that power to the point of voiding our Constitution. Guns first, then burn the Constitution second, after that dictatorship is the plan . Matters not if it be one man or a group of men tyranny is tyranny! We have afight coming ot of opur making , regardless we must fight or be enslaved same as did our founders.. -Tyr

[taft2012]

The Hitler allusions, fascism, etc., we've had an issue on that table for 30 years now and some people have acted on their words, but relatively few.

We are in the middle of a genocide against the unborn, tens of millions of Americans have been murdered in the uterus. Where are all of the shoot 'em conservatives on this issue?

In true conservatism, the right to life is even more fundamental than the right to keep and bear arms. So where is the armed insurrection?

I used to protest against communism in the Cold War with a group that used to respond to pro-communist rallies and show up as a counter demonstration. Trying to get conservatives to hold up a piece of oak tag with writing on it against communism was a Herculean task. They'd say "good job" to us when walking by, but when we asked them to join us the next weekend a look of terror would sweep across their faces and they'd run away.

What it all comes to do is my experience has taught me that conservatives will vote, write letters to politicians, and call radio talk shows. That's basically the extent of their involvement, the now-defunct Tea Party rallies notwithstanding.

The notion that people terrified of a piece of oak tag are going to dig in and go out shooting is laughable.

[CSM]

The Hitler allusions, fascism, etc., we've had an issue on that table for 30 years now and some people have acted on their words, but relatively few.

We are in the middle of a genocide against the unborn, tens of millions of Americans have been murdered in the uterus. Where are all of the shoot 'em conservatives on this issue?

In true conservatism, the right to life is even more fundamental than the right to keep and bear arms. So where is the armed insurrection?

I used to protest against communism in the Cold War with a group that used to respond to pro-communist rallies and show up as a counter demonstration. Trying to get conservatives to hold up a piece of oak tag with writing on it against communism was a Herculean task. They'd say "good job" to us when walking by, but when we asked them to join us the next weekend a look of terror would sweep across their faces and they'd run away.

What it all comes to do is my experience has taught me that conservatives will vote, write letters to politicians, and call radio talk shows. That's basically the extent of their involvement, the now-defunct Tea Party rallies notwithstanding.

The notion that people terrified of a piece of oak tag are going to dig in and go out shooting is laughable.

I am confused by your stance. You stated (rather vehemently) your contempt for those who expressed their willingness to defend their right to own firearms and suggested the ballot box as the better method. Now you want armed insurrection over the right to life. During the Cold War you state you were participating in counter demonstrations and deride those who merely vote (among other things). By the way, back when you were holding that oak tag as a counter to communism, some of us were out shooting at them. I guess I do not understand what you are advocating other than contempt for anyone whose opinion differs from yours .... whatever that opinion is.

[taft2012]

I am confused by your stance. You stated (rather vehemently) your contempt for those who expressed their willingness to defend their right to own firearms and suggested the ballot box as the better method. Now you want armed insurrection over the right to life. During the Cold War you state you were participating in counter demonstrations and deride those who merely vote (among other things). By the way, back when you were holding that oak tag as a counter to communism, some of us were out shooting at them. I guess I do not understand what you are advocating other than contempt for anyone whose opinion differs from yours .... whatever that opinion is.

No, I don't think in like 1986 through 1988 Americans were shooting at communists, except maybe for the little Grenada expedition.

I'm saying that *IF* conservatives were truly going to wage an armed insurrection they have a fascist-like cause already in place; the genocide of unborn Americans. Except for a few isolated incidents, they have chosen not to act.

I'm not advocating insurrection, so no, you don't understand. I'm saying most of the talk is a lot of substanceless bluster. If it had any substance we'd have had an armed insurrection decades ago, with the innocent body count quickly catching up to that of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

And my contempt is for those who say they will take up arms but were panicked at the notion of holding up a piece of oak tag. I think that was pretty clear.

[CSM]

No, I don't think in like 1986 through 1988 Americans were shooting at communists, except maybe for the little Grenada expedition.

I'm saying that *IF* conservatives were truly going to wage an armed insurrection they have a fascist-like cause already in place; the genocide of unborn Americans. Except for a few isolated incidents, they have chosen not to act.

I'm not advocating insurrection, so no, you don't understand. I'm saying most of the talk is a lot of substanceless bluster. If it had any substance we'd have had an armed insurrection decades ago, with the innocent body count quickly catching up to that of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

And my contempt is for those who say they will take up arms but were panicked at the notion of holding up a piece of oak tag. I think that was pretty clear.

Ok, got ya. When you say Cold War I think of the period from post WW II thru the Vietnam era to the time Reagan was in office. I view the late 80s as the end of the Cold War. Apparently you are a bit younger than I am. I agree that actions speak louder than words and most folks are rather good at shooting their mouth off (pun intended) but fall short when it comes time to back up the rhetoric.