FBI thwarts New York Fed bomb plot

[Drummond]

He is a nutcase, identified, and groomed for another showcase sting case. I doubt half these people would have the motivation nor the resources to carry out an attack considering their status as loner loonies.

I still stand by that Muslims are not terrorists. Terrorism totally contradicts Islam in many ways. Call them terrorists, murderers, criminals, but stop calling them Muslim please.

It insults law abiding citizens of good repute like myself. Yes, I have the papers to prove it!

I find myself wondering how many Muslim terrorists it will take to convince you that there are Muslim terrorists !!! Jafar, there are whole ORGANISATIONS out there which prove you wrong ! And we've already seen their handiwork. The WORLD has seen this.

If the world can see this, and know it to be true, why can't you ?

I know you've done some extensive travelling over the years (not forgetting a certain pub in WC2, London, which we've both frequented ..) .. but did your travels ever take you to Israel ?

If they did, have you ever tried asking the local population whether Muslim terrorists exist ... ????

What was their answer ?

.. And what do you THINK would be their answer ? And ... why ?

The Truth Shall Set You Free, my son ....

[mundame]

I don't believe this is entrapment. This guy came to America and started looking to start a terror cell, and was recruiting as such, and looking for bomb making materials - and that's how he found the undercover FBI. If they recruited him to do the job, then "possibly" it would lean towards entrapment. But keep in mind, entrapment would mean that he most likely wouldn't have otherwise committed the crime. From what I read, this guy was pretty darn serious and working hard to recruit and setup his goal.

Well --- I didn't mean to imply I thought entrapment was illicit! I'm quite all right with it in this case and indeed, any such cases. It is working to deter mass murders, and that's just fine with me. It's not considered illegal, after all --- the courts always convict these guys and put them in prison.

However, you may have followed this case more closely than I have, if you have read this one came here and hit the ground running as a terrorist.

[007]

There is no worldly punishment for apostasy. That is for the afterlife.

I don't know what tarquaia is. I speak English, Arabic, French and Japanese and that word is not in any of them to my knowledge.



Why is it up to CAIR and others to condemn each and every criminal who is set up for a sting operation?

I have linked to hundreds of condemnations of terrorism by Islamic leaders before on this forum. You don't have to look that far on google to find them for yourself.



It's more than just women who get treated badly in these dictatorships. Why do you think the "Arab Spring" took off. People have had enough of living under brutal regimes.



We are not silent. You are just not listening. Plus, we can't seem to get the same free publicity on mainstream media that terrorists get.

Denying that you know tarquaia is in fact tarquaia according to Islamic teaching.

tarquaia is the act of living a lie amongst the Kuffar, until the time of jihad is upon you.
you are practicing tarquaia here and now, it is an act.

[jimnyc]

Well --- I didn't mean to imply I thought entrapment was illicit! I'm quite all right with it in this case and indeed, any such cases. It is working to deter mass murders, and that's just fine with me. It's not considered illegal, after all --- the courts always convict these guys and put them in prison.

However, you may have followed this case more closely than I have, if you have read this one came here and hit the ground running as a terrorist.

Yeah, this turd came here looking for vengeance, but found the FBI instead. How I wish they taped this like they do on Cops. I would have loved to have seen this scumbags face when he kept trying to detonate the bomb via cell phone.

[jafar00]

Therein....lies your problem. The Mainstream media. Generally known as the OBAMA INFORMATION LIMITED LINE, will not give anyone who points out the failings of the Obama administration...any time, or attention.

Same happened during Bush, Clinton, Reagan........ Can't blame it on Obama.

One other problem you seemed to ignore is C.A.I.R. They are supposed to be a voice for Muslim Americans. When what appears, and sounds like the truth is. They are more prone to support those who sponsor, and endorse Terrorism, both overseas, and here at home.
They have had ample opportunities to demonstrate...as you suggest, how much they claim to be against Terror, and those who abuse, or bastardize the Religion of Peace. But when the going gets tough....they slink back into the shadows, unheard of again until something else happens they approve of....or support.

CAIR is just one voice among many. Like I said, we are always condemning acts of terror. You just aren't listening.

[007]

Same happened during Bush, Clinton, Reagan........ Can't blame it on Obama.

CAIR is just one voice among many. Like I said, we are always condemning acts of terror. You just aren't listening.

Tarquaia.

[jimnyc]

Tarquaia.

Post a definition and make your point, but replying AGAIN with repetitive inanity is boring and only serves to degrade the threads. Jafar has answered you already.

[jafar00]

Denying that you know tarquaia is in fact tarquaia according to Islamic teaching.

tarquaia is the act of living a lie amongst the Kuffar, until the time of jihad is upon you.
you are practicing tarquaia here and now, it is an act.

You are talking about Taqiyya (please spell it right if you want to use it) which is a concept from Shia'ism, not Islam. Don't try and tell me that lying is permitted by Islamic teaching when the opposite is fact.

From the Qur'aan...

shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false (3:30)
O ye who believe! Fear Allah and be with those who are true (in word and deed). (9:119)

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward. (33:35)

And hadiths like this from Riyyad As Saliheen

54. Abdullah bin Mas'ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "Truth leads to piety and piety leads to Jannah. A man persists in speaking the truth till he is enrolled with Allah as a truthful. Falsehood leads to vice and vice leads to the Fire (Hell), and a person persists on telling lies until he is enrolled as a liar".'
http://www.guidedways.com/riadusaleh...ok=0&chapter=4

I have given you clear evidence from Islamic scripture that lying is strictly forbidden. Please stop calling me a liar.

[Drummond]

You are talking about Taqiyya (please spell it right if you want to use it) which is a concept from Shia'ism, not Islam. Don't try and tell me that lying is permitted by Islamic teaching when the opposite is fact.

From the Qur'aan...

shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false (3:30)
O ye who believe! Fear Allah and be with those who are true (in word and deed). (9:119)

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward. (33:35)

And hadiths like this from Riyyad As Saliheen

54. Abdullah bin Mas'ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "Truth leads to piety and piety leads to Jannah. A man persists in speaking the truth till he is enrolled with Allah as a truthful. Falsehood leads to vice and vice leads to the Fire (Hell), and a person persists on telling lies until he is enrolled as a liar".'
http://www.guidedways.com/riadusaleh...ok=0&chapter=4

I have given you clear evidence from Islamic scripture that lying is strictly forbidden. Please stop calling me a liar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

From what I understand from this entry, Jafar, it says this was EMPHASISED in 'Shia Islam'. I don't see that to mean that it's an aberratiion exclusive to them. Though ... I note that the Shias are, nonetheless, the second largest sect that Islam has (.. so we're not exactly talking about a few individuals !).

In fact, we have confirmation that this is not confined even to the Shias, with ...

The practice of concealing one's beliefs in dangerous circumstances originates in the Qur'an, which deems blameless those who disguise their beliefs in such cases.^[6] The practice of taqiyya in difficult circumstances is considered legitimate by Muslims of various sects.

So it's rather more universally acceptable a practice than you're suggesting, Jafar.

Quoting some more ...

Quran 3:28 enjoins Muslims not to take the company of non-Muslims over Muslims unless as a means of safeguarding themselves. "Let not the believers take those who deny the truth for their allies in preference to the believers – since he who does this cuts himself off from God in everything – unless it be to protect yourself against them in this way…"^[8] Regarding 3:28, Ibn Kathir, a prominent authority writes, "meaning, except those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly." He quotes Muhammad's companion, Abu Ad-Darda', who said "we smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them," and Al-Hasan who said "the Tuqyah is acceptable till the Day of Resurrection."

From Wikipedia's entry on Shia Islam ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a_Islam

Like other branches of Islam, Shia Islam is based on the teachings of the Quran and the message of the Islamic prophet Muhammad

Perhaps you can refer, Jafar, to any 'branch' of Islam which takes the line that Muhammad's 'message' is one to be disregarded ?

Clearly, being deceptive conforms to mainstream Islamic teaching, and is excusable behaviour should the person it's being done to not share your beliefs as you'd wish them to.

[jafar00]

I find myself wondering how many Muslim terrorists it will take to convince you that there are Muslim terrorists !!! Jafar, there are whole ORGANISATIONS out there which prove you wrong ! And we've already seen their handiwork. The WORLD has seen this.

If the world can see this, and know it to be true, why can't you ?

I know you've done some extensive travelling over the years (not forgetting a certain pub in WC2, London, which we've both frequented ..) .. but did your travels ever take you to Israel ?

If they did, have you ever tried asking the local population whether Muslim terrorists exist ... ????

What was their answer ?

.. And what do you THINK would be their answer ? And ... why ?

The Truth Shall Set You Free, my son ....

Nope, I haven't been to Israel, and never will. I wouldn't be surprised if their answer is as you suggest. They grow up fed on a diet of lies and hate against "Gentiles" (non jews) and particularly against the Arabs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

From what I understand from this entry, Jafar, it says this was EMPHASISED in 'Shia Islam'. I don't see that to mean that it's an aberratiion exclusive to them. Though ... I note that the Shias are, nonetheless, the second largest sect that Islam has (.. so we're not exactly talking about a few individuals !).

In fact, we have confirmation that this is not confined even to the Shias, with ...

Calling Shia'ism, Islam is like calling Mormons, Christians. They are that far removed from Islam.

I've sat through countless lectures and Friday sermons that lying is a grave sin and shouldn't be done even to save yourself. The reason being that Martyrdom for your faith is more desirable than denial of faith to save yourself. True to the end. Never once has it been suggested that lying is in any acceptable for any reason. Quite the opposite in fact.

You can quote Shia justifications for lying all you want, but it's not going to convince me ever.

[007]

You are talking about Taqiyya (please spell it right if you want to use it) which is a concept from Shia'ism, not Islam. Don't try and tell me that lying is permitted by Islamic teaching when the opposite is fact.

From the Qur'aan...

shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false (3:30)
O ye who believe! Fear Allah and be with those who are true (in word and deed). (9:119)

For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward. (33:35)

And hadiths like this from Riyyad As Saliheen

54. Abdullah bin Mas'ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "Truth leads to piety and piety leads to Jannah. A man persists in speaking the truth till he is enrolled with Allah as a truthful. Falsehood leads to vice and vice leads to the Fire (Hell), and a person persists on telling lies until he is enrolled as a liar".'
http://www.guidedways.com/riadusaleh...ok=0&chapter=4

I have given you clear evidence from Islamic scripture that lying is strictly forbidden. Please stop calling me a liar.

It's a phonetic translation of a forign word, next you will demand I speak only Arabic!!!
you passage from the Islamic books of fairy stories tells me one thing!
Your passage references TRUE MEN AND TRUE WOMEN.
Kuffar are not regarded as such in Islam.
you just posted a link denigrating and dehumanizing non Moslems!!
Thats Islam.

[jafar00]

It's a phonetic translation of a forign word, next you will demand I speak only Arabic!!!

Your phonetic transliteration is incorrect. Tarquaia or ترقوي means "Collarbone".

The word and correct transliteration you are looking for is تقیه
Taqiyya

you passage from the Islamic books of fairy stories tells me one thing!
Your passage references TRUE MEN AND TRUE WOMEN.
Kuffar are not regarded as such in Islam.
you just posted a link denigrating and dehumanizing non Moslems!!
Thats Islam.

How is posting something about people who don't lie? The exact wording from the Arabic is الصَّادِقِينَ (Al Saadiqeen)which means "truthful ones".

I think you have been fed some nonsense.