Jafar00 is a powerful testimony for Islam

[tailfins]

Jafar, in the entire year I have been on this forum you haven't said a single unkind word to me. Don't think it hasn't gone unnoticed. While my spiritual connection is with Jesus, I cannot deny your world class character when I see it. If the way you conduct yourself is a sample of Islamic culture, I want to become an admirer of that culture. I believe you said Malaysia is one of the better Islamic nations. If I had someone like yourself to guide me to the safest spots, I would gladly visit Islamic nations and even learn Arabic. Playing around with Arabic web forms revealed that the language is written from right to left. Realistically, it takes me two years to learn a language PROPERLY. A language with non-Roman characters might take three. Being a numbers person I realize that Islamic people represent a billion opportunities to make a friend, find a boss and find a neighbor. The respect you show for your Christian employees is particularly inspiring. While it may take a while to find an opportunity to travel overseas, a more ready opportunity would be to visit a local Mosque or Islamic Center.

It's also admirable when people treat you like a turd, you only respond with information and don't get rattled. You are a better man than I.

[aboutime]

Now we're getting into classes of Turds?????

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Jafar, in the entire year I have been on this forum you haven't said a single unkind word to me. Don't think it hasn't gone unnoticed. While my spiritual connection is with Jesus, I cannot deny your world class character when I see it. If the way you conduct yourself is a sample of Islamic culture, I want to become an admirer of that culture. I believe you said Malaysia is one of the better Islamic nations. If I had someone like yourself to guide me to the safest spots, I would gladly visit Islamic nations and even learn Arabic. Playing around with Arabic web forms revealed that the language is written from right to left. Realistically, it takes me two years to learn a language PROPERLY. A language with non-Roman characters might take three. Being a numbers person I realize that Islamic people represent a billion opportunities to make a friend, find a boss and find a neighbor. The respect you show for your Christian employees is particularly inspiring. While it may take a while to find an opportunity to travel overseas, a more ready opportunity would be to visit a local Mosque or Islamic Center.

It's also admirable when people treat you like a turd, you only respond with information and don't get rattled. You are a better man than I.

That he proudly supports Hamas and by doing so supports terrorists makes no difference to you, right? yes, no..

[Drummond]

Jafar, in the entire year I have been on this forum you haven't said a single unkind word to me. Don't think it hasn't gone unnoticed. While my spiritual connection is with Jesus, I cannot deny your world class character when I see it. If the way you conduct yourself is a sample of Islamic culture, I want to become an admirer of that culture. I believe you said Malaysia is one of the better Islamic nations. If I had someone like yourself to guide me to the safest spots, I would gladly visit Islamic nations and even learn Arabic. Playing around with Arabic web forms revealed that the language is written from right to left. Realistically, it takes me two years to learn a language PROPERLY. A language with non-Roman characters might take three. Being a numbers person I realize that Islamic people represent a billion opportunities to make a friend, find a boss and find a neighbor. The respect you show for your Christian employees is particularly inspiring. While it may take a while to find an opportunity to travel overseas, a more ready opportunity would be to visit a local Mosque or Islamic Center.

Tailfins, I'll give you this much. Jafar is indeed instructive when it comes to what one can infer of Islamic culture and honour.

By his own admission, Jafar has posted nothing whatever on this forum which in any way favours Israel .. but then, one would not expect this of Islamists, or of anyone following 'Islamic culture'.

Also by his own admission, Jafar is a supporter of Hamas, which - in case it failed to grab your attention .. IS A TERRORIST ORGANISATION.

Now, Tailfins, I invite you to explain to me how respect for Christians is compatible with a mindset happy to supply support for savages who happily murder and maim because a 'Charter' of theirs demands they embark on a Jihad which requires this savagery !

As for ...

Being a numbers person I realize that Islamic people represent a billion opportunities to make a friend, find a boss and find a neighbor.

... there have been those who've believed just this, who have gone on to become captives of terrorist cells which have subsequently beheaded them !!

Now, I'm not by any means saying that every Islamist thinks like that. But, really, Tailfins ... some measure of caution is called for. You are showing a specific interest in befriending those adhering to the most aggressive and intolerant creed on the face of this Earth ! If you can find good friends from some of their number, then good luck to you. But do so with at least a LITTLE caution to guide you.

Make what you will of these following links ...

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pa...ianAttacks.htm

http://www.ibtimes.com/iranian-pasto...eaction-320447

http://www.hostageuk.org/terrywaite.php

http://www.meforum.org/713/beheading...-name-of-islam

By the way, have you ever visited Israel ? Have you any interest at all in doing so ?

[tailfins]

That he proudly supports Hamas and by doing so supports terrorists makes no difference to you, right? yes, no..

He just doesn't know any better. It's what he's been fed all his life. I don't agree with him, but I don't look down on him either.

By the way, have you ever visited Israel ? Have you any interest at all in doing so ?

Absolutely. Experience is what life is all about.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

He just doesn't know any better. It's what he's been fed all his life. I don't agree with him, but I don't look down on him either.

That is true he does not know any better. I do not claim you should look down on him unless you choose to. That is a personal choice. You should know that should you find yourself in a muslim nation and friends with some if them there --IF- radicals come to take you -to kill you , your new friends will not likely intervene and should they do so they will be killed by those that came for you. Caution is advised. By all means go and explore but be careful.. Should you do so I hope you have a great trip and a safe return!! --Tyr

[Drummond]

He just doesn't know any better. It's what he's been fed all his life. I don't agree with him, but I don't look down on him either.

Nonetheless, Jafar is much-travelled. He's spent years living in foreign cultures that could have supplied him with a more balanced outlook. Besides ... doesn't he come from Australia ? Is Australia - as of this moment, anyway - an 'Islamic State' ?

Absolutely. Experience is what life is all about.

Then do you concede the point I've just made ?

Perhaps, if you're willing, you can persuade Jafar that Israel does not deserve the Jihad which Hamas is committed to, then. It does not deserve having Islamic terrorists sending helpless children, with bombs immovably strapped on to them, on to the streets of Tel Aviv. It does not deserve suffering barrages of missiles fired at its territory from hate-fueled terrorist trash, which, may I remind you again, Jafar SUPPORTS.

[tailfins]

Nonetheless, Jafar is much-travelled. He's spent years living in foreign cultures that could have supplied him with a more balanced outlook. Besides ... doesn't he come from Australia ? Is Australia - as of this moment, anyway - an 'Islamic State' ?



Then do you concede the point I've just made ?

Perhaps, if you're willing, you can persuade Jafar that Israel does not deserve the Jihad which Hamas is committed to, then. It does not deserve having Islamic terrorists sending helpless children, with bombs immovably strapped on to them, on to the streets of Tel Aviv. It does not deserve suffering barrages of missiles fired at its territory from hate-fueled terrorist trash, which, may I remind you again, Jafar SUPPORTS.

I like being around well traveled people. The US is sinking like the Titanic, it's culture is a rotting corpse in no small part thanks to feminism and I have seen the resilience of immigrants. I like to learn as many language as possible and encourage my kids to do the same. I believe the future successful person doesn't align themselves with any country and is prepared to be present for opportunity where ever in the world it may occur. I would be very surprised if my descendants live out their lives in the US. I am blessed to have a knack for learning languages. With Islam we a talking about a billion people. Even if only 10% are part of a positive culture, that's a culture of 100 million people. If a good life can be had in Jerusalem, I will go there. If a good life can be had in Riyadh, that's fine too. Or if by some fluke Boston stays good, outstanding.

[jafar00]

Jafar, in the entire year I have been on this forum you haven't said a single unkind word to me. Don't think it hasn't gone unnoticed. While my spiritual connection is with Jesus, I cannot deny your world class character when I see it. If the way you conduct yourself is a sample of Islamic culture, I want to become an admirer of that culture. I believe you said Malaysia is one of the better Islamic nations. If I had someone like yourself to guide me to the safest spots, I would gladly visit Islamic nations and even learn Arabic. Playing around with Arabic web forms revealed that the language is written from right to left. Realistically, it takes me two years to learn a language PROPERLY. A language with non-Roman characters might take three. Being a numbers person I realize that Islamic people represent a billion opportunities to make a friend, find a boss and find a neighbor. The respect you show for your Christian employees is particularly inspiring. While it may take a while to find an opportunity to travel overseas, a more ready opportunity would be to visit a local Mosque or Islamic Center.

It's also admirable when people treat you like a turd, you only respond with information and don't get rattled. You are a better man than I.

In all of my years, nobody has taken the time to say something so good about anyone let alone to me on internet forums.

I am truly humbled. If you need help with anything I am there for you.

Tailfins, I'll give you this much. Jafar is indeed instructive when it comes to what one can infer of Islamic culture and honour.

By his own admission, Jafar has posted nothing whatever on this forum which in any way favours Israel .. but then, one would not expect this of Islamists, or of anyone following 'Islamic culture'.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I cannot support tyranny like the Israeli regime any more than I can offer any support at all to the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Pol Pot or the Nazis.

[Drummond]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I cannot support tyranny like the Israeli regime any more than I can offer any support at all to the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Pol Pot or the Nazis.

But you DO support the tyranny of TERRORISM.

Even if I accept that you don't support Al Qaeda, or the Taliban, or Pol Pot, etc .. you DO support Hamas. And as I keep pointing out, Hamas are terrorists.

You criticise Israel, you say, for not following international law. Yet you have no such complaint to make against ANY act of terrorism Hamas commits. Each and every such act has the potential to kill innocent human beings, people who want no more than to live their lives. But you never criticise those acts.

If, Jafar, you are 'a powerful testimony for Islam', and you support Hamas, and Hamas is Islamic (-IT IS -) .. then check this out ...

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

The Hamas has a 'military' wing, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, that engages in terrorist acts and a 'civilian' wing that supposedly confines itself to education and 'good works.' Hamas perpetrated numerous suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks, at first in order to sabotage the Oslo Accords and peace process, and then as part of the Second Intifada. Israel successively assassinated its leaders, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Sheikh Ahmed Rantissi, forcing the leadership underground. However, in January of 2006, candidates representing the Hamas swept to victory in Palestinian elections, overcoming the traditional leadership of the Fateh and PLO.

In June of 2006, Hamas affiliates captured an Israeli soldier by tunneling across the border between Gaza and Israel In February of 2007, Hamas, Fateh and other factions entered a unity government in a deal brokered by Saudi Arabia and Egypt. However, in practice, Hamas ruled Gaza on its own. It formed the Executive Force over the protests of the Fatah and Palestinian Authority. The Executive force was a combination internal police force, political force to be used against Hamas opponents and terrorist group. In June of 2007, Hamas ousted Fatah forces from Gaza in a bloody coup, throwing Fatah members off the roofs of buildings after shooting them in the knees. At least one Fatah member was sliced into steaks that were sent to his family.

Since Gaza had been totally evacuated by Israel in the unilateral disengagement of 2005, Hamas currently (2009) rules Gaza as a de facto state government. It has used Gaza as a base for launching rocket attacks against Israel. On June 19, 2008, Israel and Hamas concluded a "lull" or Tahdiya agreement that was brokered by Egypt. Hamas, but not Israel, declared that this truce was for a period of six months. Rocket fire from Gaza was reduced but not stopped. Hamas greatly stepped up smuggling of arms through tunnels beneath the Egyptian controlled Rafah crossing. Hamas dismissed the international monitors that were to have controlled the Rafah crossing, and then declared that Gaza is "under siege."

Israel retaliated for rocket fire by closing the Israeli crossings periodically. On December 18, 2008, Hamas declared that they would not renew the truce. Thereafter, Hamas and associated organizations directed a rain of rocket and mortar fire at Israeli towns and cities, reaching as far as 45 KM away with Grad rockets that had been smuggled in during the lull period. On December 26, 2008, Israel launched operation Cast Lead, attacking the Hamas in Gaza at first by air and later in a limited ground invasion.

Aren't Hamas 'nice', eh, Jafar ? 'Decent human beings' .. worth supporting, are they ? You talk of Israel's supposed tyranny. Let's see you condemn what Hamas gets up to ...

This, from the above link, quoted from the Hamas Charter ..

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

The charter is a rather classical Islamist document, applied to the local issues. It declares that Jihad (in the sense of armed battle) is the only solution.

When you support Hamas, you support terrorism. Jihad - 'in the sense of armed battle'. Hamas are not about negotiation. Not about compromise. Most certainly, they're not, never will be, about PEACE. No, all they want is to kill their way to their bloodsoaked victory.

AND YOU SUPPORT THIS, JAFAR.

One of the most ominous aspects of the Charter however, is this Hadith:

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).

The implication is clear: Allah promised that the Jews will be murdered, and the Hamas "aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take."

Damning stuff, eh, Jafar ? And you've the gall to speak of ISRAELI 'tyranny' .. !!!!

[aboutime]

That is true he does not know any better. I do not claim you should look down on him unless you choose to. That is a personal choice. You should know that should you find yourself in a muslim nation and friends with some if them there --IF- radicals come to take you -to kill you , your new friends will not likely intervene and should they do so they will be killed by those that came for you. Caution is advised. By all means go and explore but be careful.. Should you do so I hope you have a great trip and a safe return!! --Tyr

Tyr. That statement alone...above. Should be all any of us have to say on the subject.

Personally. I see any attempts for anyone to help justify the Phoniness offered by jafar as nothing more than extended dishonesty by jafar.

He is successful, much like Obama is successful in managing to fool One Person at a time, or thousands at a time.
That is the method our enemies always use...no matter how long it takes, as long as they succeed in convincing others THEY ARE THE VICTIMS.

[jafar00]

But you DO support the tyranny of TERRORISM.

Even if I accept that you don't support Al Qaeda, or the Taliban, or Pol Pot, etc .. you DO support Hamas. And as I keep pointing out, Hamas are terrorists.

You criticise Israel, you say, for not following international law. Yet you have no such complaint to make against ANY act of terrorism Hamas commits. Each and every such act has the potential to kill innocent human beings, people who want no more than to live their lives. But you never criticise those acts.

If, Jafar, you are 'a powerful testimony for Islam', and you support Hamas, and Hamas is Islamic (-IT IS -) .. then check this out ...

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm


Aren't Hamas 'nice', eh, Jafar ? 'Decent human beings' .. worth supporting, are they ? You talk of Israel's supposed tyranny. Let's see you condemn what Hamas gets up to ...

This, from the above link, quoted from the Hamas Charter ..

When you support Hamas, you support terrorism. Jihad - 'in the sense of armed battle'. Hamas are not about negotiation. Not about compromise. Most certainly, they're not, never will be, about PEACE. No, all they want is to kill their way to their bloodsoaked victory.

AND YOU SUPPORT THIS, JAFAR.


Damning stuff, eh, Jafar ? And you've the gall to speak of ISRAELI 'tyranny' .. !!!!

Are you quite finished posting the hate?

Ok, it's all in the interpretation of a Hadith and a proper scholar of Hadith sciences will take into account not just the text of the Hadith, but any related Hadiths and verses of the Qur'aan.

Harun Yahya has something to say about that Hadith that may help you understand the meaning.

Stones and trees calling out 'kill the Jews',' as revealed in the hadiths, is meant in a figurative sense. A believer will not act according to a voice coming from stones and trees and will not kill an innocent person. A Muslim acts solely according to the moral values of the Qur'an

Abu Huraira (ra) reported Allah's Messenger (saas) as saying: “The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews. The Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: ‘Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him;’ but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (Sahih Muslim, Kitab al-Fitan wa Ashrat as-Sa'ah, Book 41, 6985) “So that Jews will hide behind trees and the tree will say “Muslim! The servant of Allah! Come, look there is a Jew behind me, he hid here, behind me, come and punish him”. Only the tree Gharqad will not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” (Kitab al-Fitan, hadith. 2239)

One statement by Mr. Adnan Oktar concerning hadiths in which our Prophet (saas) refers to “stones and trees in the End Times telling Muslims the location of Jews hiding behind them and saying ‘Come and kill them’,” reads:

“We look at events in the light of the Qur’an and the hadiths. But one cannot issue a pronouncement on the basis of one single verse in the Qur’an. One must look at the verses as a whole. The same applies to the hadiths. The other hadiths complement one another. Therefore, if someone comes and tells us, ‘There is a Jew here, come and kill him,’ we will not kill him. Why should we? That person would have to commit a crime. And if he commits a crime he will have to be tried. And the judge will pronounce sentence at the end of the trial. There is a whole system and legal procedure involved. It does not mean that anyone who sees him can kill him and try him himself. We can see what this hadith means by looking at others. Otherwise, it is a sin to kill an innocent Jew, a person, a child, standing there, and heed a voice from a stone telling us to kill them. That is unacceptable. We must grasp what our Prophet (saas) really means. It would appear the hadith means this: Jews who are atheists or enemies of religion cannot hide. Those who hide among wood or stones will be located using all kinds of electrical devices and equipment, and the evil and activities of these people will thus be prevented, and that will be a punishment for them. That is what the hadith may be implying. (From Mr. Adnan Oktar’s interview on Adiyaman Asu TV and Kackar TV on June 3, 2010)
http://tr.harunyahya.tv/videoDetail/Product/27114/WHAT_IS_THE_EXPLANATION_OF_THE_GHARGAD_TREE_MENTIO NED_IN_THE_HADITH?

Mr. Oktar interprets this clearly figurative hadith in a very wise fashion. The content of the hadith is obviously figurative because the verses of the Qur’an regarding killing are quite explicit. It is clear that no decision to kill can be taken on the basis of producing a pronouncement on the basis of a voice from stone, trees or wood. There is no verse to that effect in the Qur’an. According to the Qur’an, a Muslim learns from the Qur’an, not from tree or wood. Nowhere in the Qur’an is it revealed that a tree or wood can bear witness for a Muslim. According to the Qur’an, it is what Muslims bear witness to that matters.

Allah compares hypocrites to “blocks of wood” in the Qur’an (Surat al-Munafiqun, 4). Allah also compares unbelievers to rock, “your hearts became as hard as rocks.” (Surat al-Baqara, 74) A Muslim does not behave according to rocks and wood. He acts according to what other Muslims say.

It is incompatible with the Qur’an and unlawful for an innocent person to be killed according to a statement issued from a stone. To say that such a ruling can be given without trying that person would mean to say that the voice from the stone was revelation (Surely Allah is beyond that). It would therefore be insanity, murder, to say, “I killed a man because of a voice from a stone” or “A rock told me, and I killed him.” A Muslim would never act in such a way toward anyone without trying them as the law demands.

If rulings were to be extracted from rock or wood, then what the rock or wood said would be regarded as Divine revelation. Since no other book apart from the Qur’an will come, to say such a thing would be to claim that rock or wood would reign over us (Surely Allah is beyond that). A Muslim acts by the light of the Qur’an and the hadiths of our Prophet (saas), not rock and wood. If a person regards stone and wood as issuing revelation, if he says, “what a rock says is revelation, rock bestows revelation on me, stone and wood rule me,” then he is departing from the religion. Under that belief, the rock might tell him other things, too. It will say anything and cause the person to do other things. There are no verses in the Qur’an concerning a Muslim obeying rock and wood.

In addition, Jews are people given protection in the time of our Prophet (saas) and who followed Muslims. The compassion and justice shown by the Prophet (saas) in the light of the Qur’an, acted as a role model for subsequent Muslim rulers. Allah says in the Qur’an,"... Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to taqwa” (Surat al-Ma’ida, 8). Allah also commands Muslims to ensure the safety even of the idolaters (pagans who do not heed Allah’s revelation): "If any of the idolaters ask you for protection, give them protection until they have heard the words of Allah. Then convey them to a place where they are safe...." (Surat at-Tawba, 6) A Muslim will therefore uphold justice, for Allah’s sake, in the face of anyone and everyone and will only seek solutions to all matters as revealed in the Qur’an.

Just so you know, and I think I have said this before. I don't support Hamas in many things that they do. In fact I would condemn a great many things they do. What I do support however is their struggle against Israeli tyranny.

[tailfins]

Tyr. That statement alone...above. Should be all any of us have to say on the subject.

Personally. I see any attempts for anyone to help justify the Phoniness offered by jafar as nothing more than extended dishonesty by jafar.

He is successful, much like Obama is successful in managing to fool One Person at a time, or thousands at a time.
That is the method our enemies always use...no matter how long it takes, as long as they succeed in convincing others THEY ARE THE VICTIMS.

It boils down to experience and what various people are like to be around. Over the last 2-3 years since the great recession, fundamental, particularly Southern fundamental Christians have disappointed me greatly. I moved Tennessee to get a boost from being nearly destitute thinking it was "God's country". It was an unmitigated disaster. What saved my bacon was a social worker in Massachusetts who loosely applied the rules to get me some resources. Some kind people at Harvard rescued my career. My ONLY tie to Christ is spiritual. Looking for Christian fruit is like walking the Sahara Desert. I'm particularly sickened by people that introduce themselves with a Bible verse, wearing their faith on their sleeve. They remind me of the lyrics from the Joe South song.

People walking up to you Singing glory hallelulia And they're tryin' to sock it to you In the name of the Lord

Read more: JOE SOUTH - GAMES PEOPLE PLAY LYRICS

And they remind me of this music video. Notice the "St. John 3:16 Jesus Saves" at 0:28 .

[Marcus Aurelius]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I cannot support tyranny like the Israeli regime any more than I can offer any support at all to the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Pol Pot or the Nazis.

STILL waiting for you to tell us if you still take the Red Cross version of events in regards to the Holocaust and the murder of 6 million Jews by the Nazis.

First, they said it didn't happen... then you said THAT is what you trust and go by... then they said it really did happen... and you disappeared from the thread like a little bitch.

[jimnyc]

I don't agree with much religiously or politically with Jafar. But I often remind myself that he just takes a different stance, and is willing to place into words these stances and share it with us, even if it goes against what is popular here in the US or the UK. Does this make him a bad person? Nope, I think actions make someone a bad person. And other than being sarcastic via humor, he's never been anything but polite with everyone, even when faced with endless posts that are not quite as friendly in return. I believe, after awhile, the person who is truly behind the keyboard will expose themselves in their posts. Based on that, I'm of the belief that Jafar is a good man, a peaceful and caring man, a patient man, a loving man and a family man. He'd be loved here if it weren't for his religion and stance on certain hot topics around the world. I know I'm going to get nailed by some, stating that if he was peaceful he wouldn't be supporting Hamas or going against Israel... We all have our beliefs and opinions. I hope people don't think I'm a bad person based on some of my more unpopular views on certain topics.

Does this mean I have changed my own stance on topics, or that I agree with Jafar? Nope, I still think some of his views are out in left field, or for the birds! That just makes him unpopular to some, not a bad guy.