Soldier versus Police Officer

[Robert A Whit]

This is my perspective:
I don't like law enforcement, but my agenda isn't a mega-federal police. It's that too many people are locked up. There are better alternatives. Too may cops treat people like subjects, not citizens. "Tough on crime" has turned to tough on non-criminals. As far as the kid getting rough-up a bit, as long as no charges were laid on him, it's not a huge deal.

I happen to like law enforcement. But in this case, I suspect by the time it is over, the lawyers and judges part of that equation may slap that cop around.

I also like cops. They may not often stop a crime but they sure collect evidence and put handcuffs on the perps.

Both my brothers beat me up at times, although I always got my licks in. My sister tossed a knife at me once which pierced my back, all because I tried to steal her toast from the toaster! We were all evil little bastards.

As the oldest, nobody beat me up. But I did not run around beating up my siblings either. When he grew up, only the youngest brother would dare to challenge me but I had him half scared to death.

Maybe that kid in the cop flick we are talking about was more like you than like me. Don't be so hard on yourself Jim.

Let me handle that part.

You haven't looked into a mirror lately?

I didn't recognize the face. Must have been you is why.

I can attack the actions of the guy who called the cops and still think the cops response was out of line. It's not that cut and dry to me. I see wrong in both. Sorry if that hurts, but that's how I see it.

Nah it does not hurt. I have no dog in that hunt. I expect though that the cop may be up on assault charges. I plan to try to find out.

[logroller]

logroller. YOU just confirmed, and provided proof as to why your eyes are ​BROWN.

Hazel-- blue/green actually. You hath shewn that you're full of shit; not that I needed confirmation.

[Robert A Whit]

These libertarians are an annoying fringe element who overpopulate political forums. I find their arguments, to rewrite the way the entire world works to justify the legalization of marijuana in the USA, to be incredibly tiresome.

In their view, we can't blow a traitor to smithereens overseas who is working with our wartime enemy, because somehow they see a tenuous link that erodes their Constitutional views that marijuana should be legalized.

They want us to support domestic liberals in their quests to contort common sense search and seizure laws here in the USA, because that will make it harder for the police to bust them with marijuana. In fact, we have to erode government security structure itself, and expose ourselves to all kinds of dangers, both domestic and international, to safeguard their ability to smoke marijuana.

Any political leader who comes along supporting the legalization of marijuana, then *HIS* entire agenda then becomes theirs. If he happens to be an anti-semite and a racist, then being an anti-semite and a racist is clearly the best thing to be. These whackadoodles are dangerous.

But note, this pothead political leader must not be a liberal himself. These libertarians are infiltrators into the conservative movement. They are liberal alumni polluting our ranks. Fortunately, they are much more active in political forums and conservative talk-radio programs, than they are in actual voting numbers. How many of them can you spot here on Debate Policy?

Conservatives are not anarchists. We recognize there are legitimate functions of government, the most obvious being to protect us from enemies abroad and maintain order domestically. The starting line for Libertarian logic begins at the same point as that of liberals; hating those that engage in the most legitimate functions of government, our military and our police.

Well, believe it or not, in California doctors prescribe it for patients.

Sticking to Marijuana, I see no purpose to telling a free human that he or she may not cause harm to their own body by smoking pot.

It's milder than booze. I know of no person tossing their cookies upon using it. I have at no time heard of any pot user getting into fights. It seems to me that it calms. Booze on the other hand can cause some kick ass fights.

We have some of the public running around demanding one causes no harm to their own body. Then we have states that have made the use of pot legal.

What would life be like if this country minded it's own business and stopped jailing people for hurting themselves. Matter of fact, seems to me that were drugs cheap, crime would not pay. Illegal drugs make crime pay very well with some risk of course.

I have a question for ya.

Do you believe that it should be illegal to drink alcohol?

my agenda is the promotion of liberty and justice for all; whatever hypothetical propositions and false allegations you submit amount to little more than subterfuge. For I do not smoke marijuana, not because I fear the legal ramifications, but rather that I do not find drug use conducive to my personal goals. Nor do I believe my race superior, so I need not concern myself with whatever hypothetical prognostication you and bob dole rest your laurels upon. When approached by law enforcement, I am polite and courteous. Not that I am treated similarly all the time, but I am empathetic to the burdens law enforcement must endure. Likewise, the reason that law enforcement is burdensome is they must enforce the law and observe it. I merely observe it. Remove the latter, ignoring the restrictions of constitutional rights and not only is your burden greatly diminished but also the foundation of your endeavored duty. You can't have it both ways, with favorable and specialized treatment afforded the uniform, while disparaging the very foundation of that code.

Re: drones are coming for me...if that's so, im still waiting-- your timetable holds all the credibility of the Mayan calendar.

Sounds to me as if you are a fine citizen. Don't know why Taft would feel the need to slash and burn you.

There is this awesome urge in some types of people where they say damned freedom, I plan to run all over you and take charge of your life.

Say, isn't that pretty much what slaves endured?

[Kathianne]

Just got off the phone with my brother, my SIL and him were out in AZ for a wedding and just got home. I asked him generally about this case, along with the killer cop brouhaha. Surprisingly to me, from what I recounted to him regarding the punk and Marine, he sided with the Marine. His basic premise was that if the complainant was aggressive both verbally, then by coming into the 'cop's' personal space, there was every reason to 'clock' him. The premise is he, (the cop), was avoiding the possibility of the civilian escalating to attacking him. The fact that the cop said he wouldn't charge him, agreed with that stance.

He also said the cop never should have gotten into a pissing match regarding Marines, just have clocked him.

[logroller]

Just got off the phone with my brother, my SIL and him were out in AZ for a wedding and just got home. I asked him generally about this case, along with the killer cop brouhaha. Surprisingly to me, from what I recounted to him regarding the punk and Marine, he sided with the Marine. His basic premise was that if the complainant was aggressive both verbally, then by coming into the 'cop's' personal space, there was every reason to 'clock' him. The premise is he, (the cop), was avoiding the possibility of the civilian escalating to attacking him. The fact that the cop said he wouldn't charge him, agreed with that stance.

He also said the cop never should have gotten into a pissing match regarding Marines, just have clocked him.

Suppose I disagree on the man coming into the "cop's" personal space, but rather, it was the other way around. Agree to disagree; suppose it should be put before a jury. Let the system work it out; not just sweep it under the rug under the auspices of teaching some punk a lesson.

[tailfins]

Suppose I disagree on the man coming into the "cop's" personal space, but rather, it was the other way around. Agree to disagree; suppose it should be put before a jury. Let the system work it out; not just sweep it under the rug under the auspices of teaching some punk a lesson.

Putting someone through the "system" is a huge punishment in itself. I guess the cop apologizing to the kid and that being the end of it would be too much to ask.

[Robert A Whit]

Just got off the phone with my brother, my SIL and him were out in AZ for a wedding and just got home. I asked him generally about this case, along with the killer cop brouhaha. Surprisingly to me, from what I recounted to him regarding the punk and Marine, he sided with the Marine. His basic premise was that if the complainant was aggressive both verbally, then by coming into the 'cop's' personal space, there was every reason to 'clock' him. The premise is he, (the cop), was avoiding the possibility of the civilian escalating to attacking him. The fact that the cop said he wouldn't charge him, agreed with that stance.

He also said the cop never should have gotten into a pissing match regarding Marines, just have clocked him.

Yet I have a hunch that by this time, a suit was filed against the cop and that some state agency is taking a hard look at this case.

You tipped me off to your bias by calling the victim a punk.

Why didn't you ask him to play that video by Channel 7 a few times?

I honestly believe some of you have missed the part where the cop got nasty to him right away.

You can't show me one sane person that had been beat up, called the cops, had to wait the most of an hour, then with a smile talked to a burly cop with attitude.

[Kathianne]

Suppose I disagree on the man coming into the "cop's" personal space, but rather, it was the other way around. Agree to disagree; suppose it should be put before a jury. Let the system work it out; not just sweep it under the rug under the auspices of teaching some punk a lesson.

His taking the 'army stance,' with puffed out chest, was 'getting into space,' along with the complaining about length of time it took to respond. As I said, my brother had 28 years as cop, last 12 as deputy chief of police of a city of over 40k. He is still teaching a course at Northwestern in police science and has been for over 15 years.

He's very educated and strongly believes in the police 'serving the community.' He's not a 'cops are always right' type of guy. He's also practical. The city this incident occurred in has had the police force cut by close to 1/3. They are in bankruptcy, only an ijit would fail to understand slower response times. His basic response is the cop should have told him to file a complaint on the response and clock him for the aggression. He also agreed with the decision not to charge him. As I said, he believed that the cop bringing up Marines was more blather and unnecessary and uncalled for.

[logroller]

Putting someone through the "system" is a huge punishment in itself. I guess the cop apologizing to the kid and that being the end of it would be too much to ask.

No too much to ask at all. Didn't seem particularly apologetic in the video though. More contrite, if not smug in his victory whilst the man mumbled incoherently after having had his brain rattled, gasping for air while being learned a lesson on respect. But hey, next time a cop gets pwned by someone, I'm not so sure an apology by the assailant would satisfy your own standards of justice. Perhaps you'd surprise me.

[Kathianne]

Yet I have a hunch that by this time, a suit was filed against the cop and that some state agency is taking a hard look at this case.

You tipped me off to your bias by calling the victim a punk.

Why didn't you ask him to play that video by Channel 7 a few times?

I honestly believe some of you have missed the part where the cop got nasty to him right away.

You can't show me one sane person that had been beat up, called the cops, had to wait the most of an hour, then with a smile talked to a burly cop with attitude.

Of course, you're onto me. Get lost.

[Robert A Whit]

His taking the 'army stance,' with puffed out chest, was 'getting into space,' along with the complaining about length of time it took to respond. As I said, my brother had 28 years as cop, last 12 as deputy chief of police of a city of over 40k. He is still teaching a course at Northwestern in police science and has been for over 15 years.

He's very educated and strongly believes in the police 'serving the community.' He's not a 'cops are always right' type of guy. He's also practical. The city this incident occurred in has had the police force cut by close to 1/3. They are in bankruptcy, only an ijit would fail to understand slower response times. His basic response is the cop should have told him to file a complaint on the response and clock him for the aggression. He also agreed with the decision not to charge him. As I said, he believed that the cop bringing up Marines was more blather and unnecessary and uncalled for.

Suppose the cop smashed a woman's head like that?

But you did not tell all of the story. Why didn't you show him the channel 7 report? They explained what took place.

Said cop gets angry over his being whined at over being late to a crime scene. Hell, who can stand and wait for that long given the guys that beat him up were still there?

If you got raped, could you stand there for 45 minutes close to the rapist?

That young man was pretty scared. He commented that the cops showed up late. But the Cop did not say, well, we got here as fast as we could. He smart mouthed the victim. The victim then got a bit upset. Then this shit about the military and suddenly that burly cop knocks the kid down.

If you guys believe cops should do this, lord help us all. We are getting closer to the Nazi scheme where their cops wanted you afraid.

I would be afraid of any cop in Vallejo now that I saw the entire story.

[logroller]

His taking the 'army stance,' with puffed out chest, was 'getting into space,' along with the complaining about length of time it took to respond. As I said, my brother had 28 years as cop, last 12 as deputy chief of police of a city of over 40k. He is still teaching a course at Northwestern in police science and has been for over 15 years.

He's very educated and strongly believes in the police 'serving the community.' He's not a 'cops are always right' type of guy. He's also practical. The city this incident occurred in has had the police force cut by close to 1/3. They are in bankruptcy, only an ijit would fail to understand slower response times. His basic response is the cop should have told him to file a complaint on the response and clock him for the aggression. He also agreed with the decision not to charge him. As I said, he believed that the cop bringing up Marines was more blather and unnecessary and uncalled for.

Agreed. I'm just saying that the cop entered into his personal space in an attempt to intimidate him physically; which is an assault; and that as a result of this act, he incited the puffed out chest. I suppose one could claim his language, calling them assholes, would qualify as fighting words, but as I've said, LE officers are expected to weather such complaints as public officials.it's not that the guy really thinks they're assholes, its that he was upset and angry that he'd had to wait so long after having been (reportedly) assaulted already. For the same reason LE actions are typically immune from personal liability, so too must they slough off complaints directed at them upon the administrative authority. The officer showed poor discretion; could of said just what you did about decreased forces. If you don't like our response time, vote to change it. I shudder to think that man will be voting favorably towards law enforcement funding now.

[Robert A Whit]

Of course, you're onto me. Get lost.

Your sorry insults only make you look bad.

[aboutime]

Your sorry insults only make you look bad.

Robert. You just don't get it, Do ya?

And you call me a Whiner? whinecheese.jpg

[Kathianne]

Agreed. I'm just saying that the cop entered into his personal space in an attempt to intimidate him physically; which is an assault; and that as a result of this act, he incited the puffed out chest. I suppose one could claim his language, calling them assholes, would qualify as fighting words, but as I've said, LE officers are expected to weather such complaints as public officials.it's not that the guy really thinks they're assholes, its that he was upset and angry that he'd had to wait so long after having been (reportedly) assaulted already. For the same reason LE actions are typically immune from personal liability, so too must they slough off complaints directed at them upon the administrative authority. The officer showed poor discretion; could of said just what you did about decreased forces. If you don't like our response time, vote to change it. I shudder to think that man will be voting favorably towards law enforcement funding now.

Actually the cop taking a step forward was not an assault. You are correct that it was meant to be intimidating, the punk should have recognized it as such.

Just calling names, I'd agree. It was the culmination of all the incidents that led to the cop striking the punk in the head. (Note, I'm not agreeing with the cop on where the punk was hit, it's obvious on the video). The punk may file charges, though he said he wasn't going to, it will go no where if he does. He was hit once and using discretion, not charged.

As my bro said, 'those that think a cop has to wait to be touched or hit, are wrong.' Long established that they are, not only allowed, but expected to take necessary action to protect themselves from harm and what is necessary to prevent an escalation of problems.

I was surprised when he said, 'Kat, you'd be surprised how many complainants are the ones who have to be 'clocked' and often arrested.' There may be reasons that the roomies kicked him out, that hasn't been brought out yet, to my knowledge.