Stolen Valor, should not be ignored!

[Robert A Whit]

Some people are like that. Which is why I fear these people having a lot of weapons in their hands.
That was the case in the Houston college shooting. Some guy bumped another guy in a hallway. The bumped person took offense and used a gun to display his feelings.

I asked my dad's best friend about this. He went to social gathering once to confront a guy who had been bragging about winning medals in Viet Nam. Instead of punching the guy in face because he is a liar, they merely trapped him with details and exposed him to ridicule.
There are tons of people who might be feeling shame or envy because they didn't serve. Perhaps they were too cowardly at the time. So they make up stuff. To me, it is no different than making up lies about why you stole from your company or cheated on your wife.
Take Ted Nugent. He took the coward's way out in the 60's and avoided the draft. Now he feels guilt and covers it up by playing Mr. Macho Gun Lover who is in favor of killing his enemies.

Liars lie. They will lie about service they did not have, they will lie about any and all things.

I hate to see some veterans say they won't post their experiences. Hell, I own history books to get what vets said and did.

There are millions of vets. Must I always see them as all liars and fear telling my own experiences since some may claim they got lied to? Bingster and I chatted on this forum about our military experineces. I believe the man. We won't agree on a lot of politics, but I believe he served.
Some of you guys don't want to read anybody's experiences unless it is you doing the telling. I run into people who are very friendly but others are just as unfriendly. I feel bad they are living lives where they flat don't want to share.

I enjoy Jim's stories and yet he does not say he was in the military. But he tells some damned good stories. And he is frank. I think he is very honest. I may be wrong. But I still accord him that he is honest until I see proof he is not.

I don't presume all of you guys and gals are not honest. I will figure it out given time. Till you give me cause to think you are not honest in what you claim, I believe you. Nothing can go wrong with my life by believing you. But if you do lie to me, i will see you as a liar forever more.

Bank on that.

[gabosaurus]

We need the best and brightest to run our country, and the companies that make it great.
We need the bravest and the sturdiest to defend our country.

I am totally baffled why anyone would confuse the two. If you don't recognize what a Rhodes Scholar is, you have been playing in the mud too long.

If you come from a military background, you recognize the contributions that the military have made to our country.
If you come from an education background, you recognize the contributions that educated people have made to our country.

You might look at a flag or an old uniform and recognize what it means. I can go to a library, gaze upon historical volumes and artifacts, and recognize what they mean.

None of us are above the other. The fact that you served in military makes you honorable. It doesn't make you better than someone who contributed to the economy. Nor does it mean that your shit doesn't stink.

[jimnyc]

Jim, I realize you are emotional about the flag.

Think of the flag as personal property and you won't get too upset when a person burns a flag or spits on it or takes a dump on it.

I look at it a tad differently, our flag....

I fly atop the world's tallest buildings.
I stand watch in America's halls of justice.
I stand side by side with the Maple Leaf on the worlds longest undefended border.
I fly majestically over institutions of learning.
I stand guard with power in the world.
Look up and see me.

I stand for peace, honor, truth and justice.
I stand for freedom.
I am confident.
I am arrogant.
I am proud.

When I am flown with my fellow banners,
my head is a little higher,
my colors a little truer.

I bow to no one! I am the Statue and I stand for Old Glory
I am recognized all over the world.
I am honored - I am saluted.
I am loved - I am revered.
I am respected -- and I am feared.

I have fought in every battle of every war for more then 200 years. I was flown at Valley Forge, Gettysburg, Shiloh and Appomattox. I was there at San Juan Hill, the trenches of France, in the Argonne Forest, Anzio, Rome and the beaches of Normandy, Guam, Okinawa, Korea and KheSan, Saigon Vietnam.
Know me,
I was there.

I led my troops, I was dirty, battle worn and tired,
but my soldiers cheered me, And I was proud.
I have been burned, torn and trampled on the streets of countries I have helped set free. It does not hurt,
for I am invincible.

I have been soiled upon, burned, torn and trampled on the streets of my country. And when it's by those whom I've served in battle -- it hurts.
But I shall overcome -- for I am strong.

I have slipped the bonds of Earth and stood watch over the uncharted frontiers of space from my vantage point on the moon.
I have borne silent witness to all
of America's finest hours.

But my finest hours are yet to come.
When I am torn into strips and used as bandages for my wounded comrades on the battlefield,
When I am flown at half-mast to honor my soldiers,
Or when I lie in the trembling arms of a grieving parent at the grave of their fallen son or daughter,
I am proud.

MY NAME IS OLD GLORY


http://lovethissite.com/oldglory/

[ConHog]

If I wanted to I could point out a fat handful of posts where you solely posted the "poop" smiley. I engaged you here, we had a decent amount of back and forth. I got a tad silly at the end, or humorous. It won't happen again. I'm not going to engage people that are going to whine over a few funny posts, even if at their expense (Lord knows no one else here has fun!).

Whatever, let's just move along then.

Perhaps I over reacted, just as others over react to me.

[Robert A Whit]

We need the best and brightest to run our country, and the companies that make it great.
We need the bravest and the sturdiest to defend our country.

I am totally baffled why anyone would confuse the two. If you don't recognize what a Rhodes Scholar is, you have been playing in the mud too long.

If you come from a military background, you recognize the contributions that the military have made to our country.
If you come from an education background, you recognize the contributions that educated people have made to our country.

You might look at a flag or an old uniform and recognize what it means. I can go to a library, gaze upon historical volumes and artifacts, and recognize what they mean.

None of us are above the other. The fact that you served in military makes you honorable. It doesn't make you better than someone who contributed to the economy. Nor does it mean that your shit doesn't stink.

Most of that I can agree with. I bolded what I don't accept as fact. I looked up when Clinton was president how one qualifies as a Rhodes scholar. I accept that those who get one must be well above average in intelligence. But most people, even the smartest, never go to Cambridge on that scholarship. Their shit smells as bad as the most stupid person's shit smells.

I did reseach into each of this countries wars.
Wars can be classified in a few ways.
1. Self defense
2. Offense
3. Vital to the survival of this country
4. An issue that the current government (current at the time of war) backs in other lands. I mean that any administration can back a particular war that some other administration would shun like the plague.

It is extremely arrogant of this country to attack other nations who did not invade us and pretend the battles were all just. (I believe that if the people of other lands obtain freedom with our army, it is much easier to say it was just than other times)

Then as part of this, I took note of which political party has dragged we taxpayers into their wars.

Some of you may be shocked. But it is a FACT that the bulk of our wars were committed to by Democrats. Yet they chide republicans over their few wars.

A republican holds the record for the most killed in combat. (Lincoln)

What is very strange to me is that same president is among the top presidents according to historians. I believe that the majority of historians are democrats. That is a hunch though.

[Robert A Whit]

I look at it a tad differently, our flag....

I fly atop the world's tallest buildings.
I stand watch in America's halls of justice.
I stand side by side with the Maple Leaf on the worlds longest undefended border.
I fly majestically over institutions of learning.
I stand guard with power in the world.
Look up and see me.

I stand for peace, honor, truth and justice.
I stand for freedom.
I am confident.
I am arrogant.
I am proud.

When I am flown with my fellow banners,
my head is a little higher,
my colors a little truer.

I bow to no one! I am the Statue and I stand for Old Glory
I am recognized all over the world.
I am honored - I am saluted.
I am loved - I am revered.
I am respected -- and I am feared.

I have fought in every battle of every war for more then 200 years. I was flown at Valley Forge, Gettysburg, Shiloh and Appomattox. I was there at San Juan Hill, the trenches of France, in the Argonne Forest, Anzio, Rome and the beaches of Normandy, Guam, Okinawa, Korea and KheSan, Saigon Vietnam.
Know me,
I was there.

I led my troops, I was dirty, battle worn and tired,
but my soldiers cheered me, And I was proud.
I have been burned, torn and trampled on the streets of countries I have helped set free. It does not hurt,
for I am invincible.

I have been soiled upon, burned, torn and trampled on the streets of my country. And when it's by those whom I've served in battle -- it hurts.
But I shall overcome -- for I am strong.

I have slipped the bonds of Earth and stood watch over the uncharted frontiers of space from my vantage point on the moon.
I have borne silent witness to all
of America's finest hours.

But my finest hours are yet to come.
When I am torn into strips and used as bandages for my wounded comrades on the battlefield,
When I am flown at half-mast to honor my soldiers,
Or when I lie in the trembling arms of a grieving parent at the grave of their fallen son or daughter,
I am proud.

MY NAME IS OLD GLORY


http://lovethissite.com/oldglory/

Jim, I believe every word of that is true. So how do we see personal property rights differently?

[jimnyc]

Jim, I believe every word of that is true. So how do we see personal property rights differently?

Because I believe our Flag should be treated as a long standing, long living 'object'. While one can buy one, or come upon one via other means, that's why we even have ways of disposing of a retired flag. I'm a sentimental fucker, what can I say?

[ConHog]

Because I believe our Flag should be treated as a long standing, long living 'object'. While one can buy one, or come upon one via other means, that's why we even have ways of disposing of a retired flag. I'm a sentimental fucker, what can I say?

Apparently he doesn't understand that we don't honor the flag, we honor what it represents. Which is what makes burning it so disgusting. They are literally destroying what our flag represents.

They have the right to do so of course, but it sickens me.

[Robert A Whit]

Because I believe our Flag should be treated as a long standing, long living 'object'. While one can buy one, or come upon one via other means, that's why we even have ways of disposing of a retired flag. I'm a sentimental fucker, what can I say?

Jim, may we agree that the Flag represents rights?

The right to private property is higher in standing than a piece of cloth.

I, many years ago seem to recall I took more of your view. The worst person in my view is one that in public defaces the flag.

But when one tries to claim as his or her right, the right to what you own as a flag, or my flags, I get more upset they want to remove my right than that they pissed all over the flag.

If we can't defend personal property, at some point that flag may indeed be replaced by some other flag. What then? If they manage to replace our flag with a new one, do you then get upset over the new flag? Maybe they make it as law that the flag with the hammer and sythe of the new empire is a flag you may not shit on or cut to pieces.

You know Jim, first they will force you to use your personal property (your flag) as they see fit. Next they will force you to obey a new flag.

[Robert A Whit]

Originally Posted by jimnyc
Because I believe our Flag should be treated as a long standing, long living 'object'. While one can buy one, or come upon one via other means, that's why we even have ways of disposing of a retired flag. I'm a sentimental fucker, what can I say?

Apparently he doesn't understand that we don't honor the flag, we honor what it represents. Which is what makes burning it so disgusting. They are literally destroying what our flag represents.

They have the right to do so of course, but it sickens me.

By removing the condition word HE, the rest represents your view but i am not certain it represents Jim's view.

We are discussing not what it represents, but the actual flag owned by a free human being.

I am disgusted to the max when that flag is defaced or shit on.

But private property is one of the ultimate rights we value the most.

My private property extends to my income. I see no reason for those turds in DC to remove my private property so they can misuse the funds. Let me misuse my own funds. But when they shit on me, I feel like I am the Flag.

[ConHog]

By removing the condition word HE, the rest represents your view but i am not certain it represents Jim's view.

We are discussing not what it represents, but the actual flag owned by a free human being.

I am disgusted to the max when that flag is defaced or shit on.

But private property is one of the ultimate rights we value the most.

My private property extends to my income. I see no reason for those turds in DC to remove my private property so they can misuse the funds. Let me misuse my own funds. But when they shit on me, I feel like I am the Flag.

By he I meant you not jim.

[Voted4Reagan]

Thread topic is--Stolen Valor, now I kindly suggest that you stop attempting to derail this thread.
Nobody's name has been brought up in this thread.
Stop with the derailing, you have done a lot of that lately. Don't like the thread , I suggest that you ignore it .
Your name wasn't mentioned here.. -Tyr

Put him on IGNORE Tyr....

You wont regret it... Promise

[Syrenn]

interesting thread.

This was my more or less "invitation" link to the site.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

interesting thread.

This was my more or less "invitation" link to the site.

Nice that you could make it.

[Robert A Whit]

Because I believe our Flag should be treated as a long standing, long living 'object'. While one can buy one, or come upon one via other means, that's why we even have ways of disposing of a retired flag. I'm a sentimental fucker, what can I say?

Oh crist. I thought this was over and done with.

Jim, did I mention it is cloth. Did I mention it is a person's private property? Did I mention that it started as thread that was dyed?

If one rips off the flag that hangs say on the Capitol in DC and spits on it, defaces it and burns it, he did wrong. But that flag was not private property. It was the entire public's property.

But if you have a US Flag and you wish to let your dog use it as the floor of his dog house and the dog shits on the flag, the reason you can do that is it belongs to you. Your private property rights are sacred. While the Flag flown by the Government is definitely a symbol of your rights, your rights belong to you and not to the Government. Bear in mind that you did not create/select this particular flag. When you purchased the flag, it was your cash being spent. Your cash represents time you spent earning. All in all, it all is your private property.

Now, do not ever get the idea I am in favor of not respecting the Flag. I do respect it. But I am really respecting your private property rights even more. The flag can change. During my life I have seen the flag change two times. But your rights so far as I am concerned should not change.

Note to explain.

As a boy, the flag had but 48 stars. We would never fly that flag today. Then it got 49 stars. Same thing, do not use that flag. We now have 50 stars.