Stop the lies

[manu1959]

False, it is entirely possible to comply without an inspector present.

.....the claim was .... " he was complying with inspections " .... it is not possible to have inspections without inspectors .....

[Nukeman]

.....the claim was .... " he was complying with inspections " .... it is not possible to have inspections without inspectors .....

Manu, your wasting your breath or should I say you'll get a cramp from typing...

[manu1959]

Manu, your wasting your breath or should I say you'll get a cramp from typing...

i know but, i like watching him bob and weave....

[lily]

I wasn't referring to Nevada---al-quaeda likes those weapons.

Well, I don't know what to tell you.......that's what I was referring to, quotes and all.

[loosecannon]

.....the claim was .... " he was complying with inspections " .... it is not possible to have inspections without inspectors .....

OK you can think that, but compliance does not depnd on inspections.

I can open my doors and turn on the lights but if nobody shows up to inspect I still complied.

[manu1959]

OK you can think that, but compliance does not depnd on inspections.

I can open my doors and turn on the lights but if nobody shows up to inspect I still complied.

.....the claim by the thread starter was .... " he was complying with inspections " .... it is not possible to have inspections without inspectors .....

[nevadamedic]

I find a liberal accusing Republicans of stealing their tactic of attempting to rewrite the facts through constantly repeating the same BS hillarious, and just about the definition of "hypocrite."

[zefrendylia]

.....the claim by the thread starter was .... " he was complying with inspections " .... it is not possible to have inspections without inspectors .....

Apparently you're confused. I wasn't discussing Saddam's non-compliance with the 1991 cease fire agreements after 1998. I was discussing Saddam's compliance with the weapons inspection teams in 2002-2003. The cynically-timed, pre mid-term election vote for a resolution authorizing force was based upon what occurred with these inspections in 2002-2003. Saddam complied with these inspections (granted the 200,000 American troops on his borders didn't hurt). Despite that, the Administration went forward with the invasion anyway. Therefore, the Administration violated their own Republican-originated authorization of force.

Supporters of the invasion like to always bring up the cease-fire agreements from the Persian Gulf War. But for some strange reason, their trip down memory lane stops there. Since we like to look at Saddam in the larger context, I say we go back a few more decades.

Let's start in the 1950's since that's when U.S. influence began increasing in the Mid-East.

1955: The anti-Soviet, military-security Baghdad Pact is signed with Turkey, Iran (coup already completed by the CIA), Pakistan, NATO (the U.S.).

1958: Coup led by General Karim Kassem.

1959: Iraq withdraws from Baghdad Pact, Kassem nationalizes part of the country's oil industry (meaning he thinks Iraqis deserve more of the profits than foreign oil companies)

1963: Kassem is overthrown by the Ba'ath Party with the funding and support of the CIA. The Ba'ath Party initiates an era of pogroms with the full knowledge of the U.S. embassy (hey at least they're not commies right?).

1974-75: Kurdish revolts in the north are put down violently with no condemnation by the U.S. Saddam Hussein is head of internal security.

1979: Saddam Hussein becomes President; Iranian revolution--pro-U.S. Shah is overthrown after decades of brutal oppression (and supported by the CIA)

1980: Iraq-Iran War starts

1980-1988: Iraq receives arms, funding, and intelligence from U.S. and other Western nation to include chemical weapons and biological agents even after evidence shows Saddam will use them

1984: DIA intelligence shows Iraq using nerve agents on Iranian troops (100,000 affected); U.S. intelligence helps to calibrate mustard gas for maximum effect.

1988: Chemical agents used on Kurds--5000 killed; US Senate passed the Prevention of Genocide Act, which would have imposed sanctions on the Hussein regime. The White House used its influence to stall the bill in the House of Representatives. When Congress did eventually pass the bill, the White House did not implement it.

1989: U.S. invades nation of Panama under pretext of drug traffiking, removing dictator and occupying country.

1990: Iraqi economy destroyed by war; Kuwait refuses to reduce OPEC production to increase price of oil; Saudi Arabia and Kuwait refuse to forgive Iraqi war debt; Iraq disputes oil-rich region bordering Kuwait and Kuwaiti "slant-drilling;" U.S. Ambassador April Gilespie claims the U.S. will not get involved over the dispute; Iraqi invades and occupies Kuwait

1991: 15-year old Nayirah, daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador gives false congressional testimony of "babies being yanked out of incubators"

Jan. 1991: Saddam ignores UN deadline for withdrawal; air bombardment commences--Coalition targets Iraqi civilian infrastructure (dams, electrical grids, sewage plants, water purification) in violation of the Laws of War

Feb. 1991: Saddam proposes cease-fire and withdrawal--U.S. declines but promises not to fire on retreating troops; retreating Iraqis torch kuwaiti oil wells; "The Highway of Death" commences--Iraqi civilians and military personnel are massacred; President Bush publicly calls on Iraqis to overthrow Saddam--when they do Saddam brutally puts them down; Bush tells U.S. Army to stand down and disavows chief CIA agents in Iraq.

1991: Iraqi chemical weapons dumps exploded by American troops, atmospheric dispersement exposes over 200,000.

1991-1998: Weapons inspections and economic sanctions; CIA infiltrates weapons teams to gather intelligence for regime change; sanctions kill an estimated 500,000 Iraqis--mostly children; despite U.S. best efforts, Saddam resists coup, but people suffer--little infrastructure rebuilt after coalition bombardment; despite no language in UN ceasefire resolution--coalition institutes no-fly zones over 60% of Iraq; Saddam becomes increasingly paranoid--kicks out inspectors and targets coalition aircraft; Operation Desert Fox; millions of dollars to Iraqi National Congress (Ahmed Chalabi)--much of it disappears; Neo-conservatives try to persuade Clinton for overt regime change but ultimately fail.

1998-2000: Monica Lewinsky scandal, growth of Al Qaeda-led attacks

Jan. 2001: Despite clear evidence of Al Qaeda threat (and no link to Iraq), new Administration holds National Security Council meeting with 1 topic: regime change in Iraq.


Hey, here's an idea. Why don't we just completely stay out of the middle east for once.

[nevadamedic]

Apparently you're confused. I wasn't discussing Saddam's non-compliance with the 1991 cease fire agreements after 1998. I was discussing Saddam's compliance with the weapons inspection teams in 2002-2003. The cynically-timed, pre mid-term election vote for a resolution authorizing force was based upon what occurred with these inspections in 2002-2003. Saddam complied with these inspections (granted the 200,000 American troops on his borders didn't hurt). Despite that, the Administration went forward with the invasion anyway. Therefore, the Administration violated their own Republican-originated authorization of force.

Supporters of the invasion like to always bring up the cease-fire agreements from the Persian Gulf War. But for some strange reason, their trip down memory lane stops there. Since we like to look at Saddam in the larger context, I say we go back a few more decades.

Let's start in the 1950's since that's when U.S. influence began increasing in the Mid-East.

1955: The anti-Soviet, military-security Baghdad Pact is signed with Turkey, Iran (coup already completed by the CIA), Pakistan, NATO (the U.S.).

1958: Coup led by General Karim Kassem.

1959: Iraq withdraws from Baghdad Pact, Kassem nationalizes part of the country's oil industry (meaning he thinks Iraqis deserve more of the profits than foreign oil companies)

1963: Kassem is overthrown by the Ba'ath Party with the funding and support of the CIA. The Ba'ath Party initiates an era of pogroms with the full knowledge of the U.S. embassy (hey at least they're not commies right?).

1974-75: Kurdish revolts in the north are put down violently with no condemnation by the U.S. Saddam Hussein is head of internal security.

1979: Saddam Hussein becomes President; Iranian revolution--pro-U.S. Shah is overthrown after decades of brutal oppression (and supported by the CIA)

1980: Iraq-Iran War starts

1980-1988: Iraq receives arms, funding, and intelligence from U.S. and other Western nation to include chemical weapons and biological agents even after evidence shows Saddam will use them

1984: DIA intelligence shows Iraq using nerve agents on Iranian troops (100,000 affected); U.S. intelligence helps to calibrate mustard gas for maximum effect.

1988: Chemical agents used on Kurds--5000 killed; US Senate passed the Prevention of Genocide Act, which would have imposed sanctions on the Hussein regime. The White House used its influence to stall the bill in the House of Representatives. When Congress did eventually pass the bill, the White House did not implement it.

1989: U.S. invades nation of Panama under pretext of drug traffiking, removing dictator and occupying country.

1990: Iraqi economy destroyed by war; Kuwait refuses to reduce OPEC production to increase price of oil; Saudi Arabia and Kuwait refuse to forgive Iraqi war debt; Iraq disputes oil-rich region bordering Kuwait and Kuwaiti "slant-drilling;" U.S. Ambassador April Gilespie claims the U.S. will not get involved over the dispute; Iraqi invades and occupies Kuwait

1991: 15-year old Nayirah, daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador gives false congressional testimony of "babies being yanked out of incubators"

Jan. 1991: Saddam ignores UN deadline for withdrawal; air bombardment commences--Coalition targets Iraqi civilian infrastructure (dams, electrical grids, sewage plants, water purification) in violation of the Laws of War

Feb. 1991: Saddam proposes cease-fire and withdrawal--U.S. declines but promises not to fire on retreating troops; retreating Iraqis torch kuwaiti oil wells; "The Highway of Death" commences--Iraqi civilians and military personnel are massacred; President Bush publicly calls on Iraqis to overthrow Saddam--when they do Saddam brutally puts them down; Bush tells U.S. Army to stand down and disavows chief CIA agents in Iraq.

1991: Iraqi chemical weapons dumps exploded by American troops, atmospheric dispersement exposes over 200,000.

1991-1998: Weapons inspections and economic sanctions; CIA infiltrates weapons teams to gather intelligence for regime change; sanctions kill an estimated 500,000 Iraqis--mostly children; despite U.S. best efforts, Saddam resists coup, but people suffer--little infrastructure rebuilt after coalition bombardment; despite no language in UN ceasefire resolution--coalition institutes no-fly zones over 60% of Iraq; Saddam becomes increasingly paranoid--kicks out inspectors and targets coalition aircraft; Operation Desert Fox; millions of dollars to Iraqi National Congress (Ahmed Chalabi)--much of it disappears; Neo-conservatives try to persuade Clinton for overt regime change but ultimately fail.

1998-2000: Monica Lewinsky scandal, growth of Al Qaeda-led attacks

Jan. 2001: Despite clear evidence of Al Qaeda threat (and no link to Iraq), new Administration holds National Security Council meeting with 1 topic: regime change in Iraq.


Hey, here's an idea. Why don't we just completely stay out of the middle east for once.

Huh?